6 
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE 
Hon. 
C. Vivian. 
10 July 
1871. 
from ihc. Bombay Government the other clay a 
bill for nearly 16,000 which exteiidecl over five 
years, for the maintenance of slaves at Aden, so 
that, taking’ the average, it costs us about 3,000 /. 
a year. In the case of those who are sent to the 
Mauritius, I believe, they cost us nothing ; the 
planters give a premium which covers the whole 
expense of maintaining them. 
73. Mr. Kinnair(V\ You have heard no com 
plaint of their treatment in the Mauritius ?—No ; 
on the contrary, I believe the negroes arc 
happy there. 
74. The Mauritius is a very excellent outlet 
for these liberated slaves ?—I have no doubt they 
are happy there, but I still think that our 
taking them to our own colonies lays us open 
to the charge that we are putting down the slave 
trade for our own purposes. 
75. What did the Committee of which you 
were a member recommend should be done with 
the liberated slaves ?—That they should be landed 
at Zanzibar itself, under due precautions, where 
a depot of liberated slaves should be established, 
so as to substitute gradually free labour for slave 
labour : that we should form a colony there 
of free labour to compete with slave labour. 
76. 3ir. AcrtTíôíívn/.] Would not they be liable 
to be carried olf if they were taken to Zanzibar ? 
■—Of course they wmuld, unless under very strong 
precautions. 
77. Mr. J\\nnairdP\ The great objection to it 
would be, that unless the Sultan of Zanzibar be 
haved better than we could expect him to behave, 
in all probability they would be re-captured?— 
Yes, the Sultan could not do it himself; we should 
be obliged to help him. 
78. Mr. Cruni-Ewbnj.''\ The northern Arabs 
would be too strong for him ?—Yes : it was only 
the other day that the northern Arabs w-ere found 
engaged in a plot to kidnap his own slaves, and 
take them away to the north. 
79. John Hay.\ Do you think if the export 
was practically stopped, those men would still 
find their way down to Zanzibar?—My opinion is 
that you ought to seal up both ends ; you ought to 
seal up the coast, and you ought to prevent those 
men coming down ; they have no right to come 
down; they are clearly breaking the treaty. We^ 
have treaties with every Power up in the north, 
and we ought to insist that those Arab slave 
traders should not be allowed to come down. 
80. Mr. Kennuii:ay.'\ If the risk of capture were 
very much increased, so that the trade became no 
longer profitable, they would not come down, 
would they ?—As long as there is the demand for 
slaves that there is in the north, you will always 
find that they will run the risk. 
81. Mr. Crum-Ewing.'] How would you pre 
vent the Arabs coming down ?—The only way to 
do it would be to appeal to the chiefs, and say, 
“You have broken your treaty ; these northern 
Arabs arc coming do’wn in great quantities every 
year, and we must insist upon no person coming 
in future who is not furnished with a pass from 
you, the chief, to show’ that he is an honest and 
legal trader.” Some arrangement of that kind 
might be made. 
82. Mr. Kinnaird.] What is done with the 
children who are liberated ?—There are schools at 
Seychelles, and there is the Nassick school at 
Bombay ; the children, I fancy, are very well cared 
for. Bishop Tozer has a school at Zanzibar. 
83. Is that doing w ell ?—Yes^ and there is a 
French mission school. 
84. Have the Church Missionary Society 
made an offer to take care of the children ?— 
Yes ; I think they wanted to establish a school for 
their reception at Seychelles ; they seem to me to 
be unwilling to go to Zanzibar. 
@5. You say there is considerable insecurity at 
Zanzibar?—Yes; there would not be with proper 
precaution ; it is all a question of expense. 
86. Mr. Crum-Ewing.] A very small British 
force at Zanzibar would be sufficient to prevent 
the liberated slaves being carried away, would it 
not ?—Yes, I think one vessel and a steam launch 
kept there would be sufficient. 
87. Mr. Kinnaird.] Have you had an offer to 
receive children at schools in ‘ the Mauritius ?—I 
am not awTire of it. I fancy w e must have landed 
a good many children there, 
88. By whom is the cost of the transmission of 
the liberated negroes to our colonies paid ? A 
premium is paid by the planters w ho take them, 
and I believe that covers all the expenses. 
89. If the I rench offered to take them into 
their colonies, do you not think we ought to faci 
litate their taking them ?—I think that might be 
done ; in fact, we proposed it in our report as a 
tentative measure. 
90. If w e offered them to other countries who 
undertook to take of them, it could not with the 
same justice be said that we w ere onlv servinof our 
own purposes in putting down the slave trade ? 
No ; we consider that a negro once taken by our 
cruisers is a free man, and that he has the right to 
dispose of himself as he chooses. I do not sup 
pose, however, that their tastes are always con 
sidered. 
91. Chairman.] IVhat is the administrative 
staff at Zanzibar, and what is its cost?—There 
is a political agent and consul at Zanzibar, and a 
vice consul and a clerk. The political agent is 
an officer of the Government of India, who re 
ceives ex officio a commission as consul, the 
salary of both offices being paid by the Govern 
ment of India ; he is also Judge of the Admiraltv 
Court there, and has an enormous amount of 
duty to perform. 
92. _ MTiat office does Dr. Kirk hold?—He is 
the vice consul, and he is now acting as consul 
in Ml. Churchill s absence. The total expenses 
are about 2,/ 66 /. ; our share, if we paid half 
of it, which we do not, would be about 1,400 1. ; 
we do not pay a shilling. 
93. Are the duties of the agent purely Indian 
or Imperial ?—I should think by far the greater 
part of his duties were in connection with the slave 
trade, which is a matter of Imperial interest. 
94. The Indian interests which he is there to 
protect are the interests of British Indian sub 
jects, residents there ?—There are a great many 
difficult political questions in reference to Muscat 
and the Persian Gulf ; the connection which 
existed in former days between Muscat, the Per 
sian Gulf, and Zanzibar is still kept up, and our 
policy in relation to all that region in connection 
with India is a very difficult one. 
95. Is the Indian Government interested in 
suppressing the slave trade ?—If they did not 
think that it was a matter of Imperial interest to 
suppress it, I do not think they would set them 
selves to work to suppress it. 
96. Mr. Kinnaird.] They are carrying out 
faithfully and energetically the policy of England? 
They propose to ’work with us as energetically 
as possible. 
97. And they have done so?—Yes; but natu 
rally