ON SLAVE trade (EAST COAST OF AFRICA). 
rally they object to pay the whole expense them 
selves. 
98. Chairman.'] Are British Indians in Zanzi 
bar allowed to hold or deal in slaves?—There 
have been different orders about that; most of 
British Indians in Zanzibar are not natives 
^ British India, but natives of protected States. 
Many of the important men in Zanzibar are 
Datives of Kutch, which is an Indian State under 
British protection, and the Rao of Kutch has by 
proclamation made over to us the protection of 
his subjects abroad, for us to deal with them in 
|he same way as if they were British subjects ; 
but I believe in Kutch itself domestic slavery 
IS recognised. However, when our Committee 
Diet last year, we determined that on no conside- 
lation would we allow any Indians under British 
protection to hold slaves in Zanzibar, and it is 
Dne of the provisions of the proposed treaty that, 
niter a certain date to be fixed by the Government 
oi India, all slaves held by Kutchees are to be 
leleased, and, in the meantime, they are to be 
lorbidden to acquire any fresh ones ; they have 
been allowed to hold slaves. 
99. Do you think the Sultan of Zanzibar 
could be compelled or induced to prohibit the 
transport of slaves by sea altogether ?—I think 
he might gradually ; I do not think he could do 
it at once ; I do not see how he could do without 
some sort of labour in Zanzibar. 
100. Lord F, CavendisliC\ What is the size of 
■^nzibar ?—It is about 25 miles in length, I 
thi^ ; the number of slaves required in Zanzibar, 
in Dr. Kirk’s opinion, is about 1,700. 
101. How would you suggest that the Sultan 
iDight be induced to put an end to the export of 
slaves ?—I think you would have to give him a 
jDOney compensation, to make up for the loss of 
his revenue. 
102. Sir R. Anstruther.^\ He derives about a 
ourth of his whole revenue from the slave tax, 
^ oes he not ?—Yes ; we calculated that he derived 
^bout 20,000 A a year from his tax upon slaves, 
®c that we could not expect him to give that up 
'vithout getting some compensation for it. 
03. Mr. Kinnaird.'] Those are not all slaves 
^^DÍfic in which is recognised by the treaty ? 
•iNo; and though, in answer to a previous ques- 
put to me by the Chairman, whether the 
ultan ot Zanzibar had ever violated the treaty, 
answered that he had carried out the treaty, I 
bave always thought that indirectly he must have 
violated it, because he must know that this large 
of slaves cannot be required for Zanzibar; 
and he accepts a tax for a larger number of slaves 
1 be required for the legal traffic. 
04. Was not there an idea entertained by the 
ommittee, or by some Members of it, that if we 
^fbeved him from what he was obliged to pay to 
c imaum of Muscat he might be induced to 
n ^"3^ tfcaty to discontinue the slave trade 
^^^Dinions ?—Yes; that would be about 
^ that is what we suggested. 
®Dggested that, anticipating that if 
nf T if the slave tiade was sup- 
nrvf trade would spring up which would 
Y Dny outlay of that sort?— 
es, but I think, to inaugurate that new trade, 
7 i would have to go to other expenses. For 
anee, you would have to establish steam com- 
ramiication with Zanzibar; at present the com- 
1 with Zanzibar is extremely irregular. 
U)b. J here have been very liberal offers from 
^^^^Dipanies to run to Zanzibar, have there 
not ?—There have been offers, but they all wanted 
a subsidy, and to that proposal the Government 
has turned a deaf ear. 
107. Your opinion is, that one of the most 
useful ways of putting down the slave traffic 
would be by encouraging and subsidising for a 
time steam communication?—No doubt; nothing 
did so much good on the west coast, in the way 
of checking the slave trade, as the establishment 
of steam communication and opening up trade. 
Lagos, which is now a place of considerable trade, 
was formerly the very hotbed of the slave trade. 
108. It now returns a very considerable re 
venue ?—Yes. 
109. Chairman.'] What effect in your opinion 
would the abolition of the slave trade ha^ e upon 
the prosperity of Zanzibar ?—If you did it sud 
denly, I think it would very likely provoke a 
revolution ; if you managed it gradually, as the 
Committee proposed, by establishing a depot of 
slaves, either at Zanzibar, or on the coast, under 
proper precaution, and hiring them out to differ 
ent employers under proper precautions for their 
safety and good treatment, I do not think any 
harm would result, on the contrary I think the 
resources of Zanzibar would be opened up, and 
that there might soon be a flourishing trade. 
110. ^Tho would be the people who would join 
in a revolution ?—The Arabs. 
111. Would they be strong enough to bring 
about a revolution?—The Sultan is a weak 
sovereign, and the Arabs do almost anythino- 
they please. We had some despatches to-day 
from Zanzibar, in which it was stated that the 
Arabs had sent a message to the captain of the 
“ Wolverine ” to say that one of Her Majesty’s 
vessels had gone on shore and that 20 men had 
been drowned, and that she steamed off to the 
rescue : it turned out that it was a mere trick of 
the slave traders to get her out of the way. 
112. MTiat precautions would you suggest for 
the protection of the freed slaves ?—In the first 
place every slave ought to be registered at the 
British Consulate, and should be under his pro 
tection. You must have a ship and steam launch 
there constantly till the scheme began to work, 
and the Sultan should publicly notify his inten 
tion of punishing most severely any attempt to 
molest or kidnap a freed man. Then if you 
managed to shut out the northern Arabs as well, 
I do not think there would be much danger of 
the liberated slaves being kidnapped. 
113. T ou said that the liberated slaves were 
badly treated at Aden ?—I hardly meant badly 
treated, but there is no emifloyment for them 
there ; they are virtually kept in prison there till 
they are sent off to Bombay. 
1)4. Mr. Crum-Eivmg.] When they go the 
colonies they are apprenticed for a certain num 
ber of years with a planter ?—Yes; who has to 
give security for his treatment of the slaves. 
115. Their position is the same as that of the 
coolie labourers ?—Yes. 
116. Mr. Kinnaird.] M by are they sent to 
Aden ?—Those taken in the north are obliged to 
be taken to Aden ; it would be difficult to bring 
them to Seychelles or Mauritius ; they are kept 
at Aden till notification is received from Bombay 
that labour is required. 
117. What is done with them at Bombay?— 
I do not know what happens to them when they 
get to Bombay ; they are not slaves. 
118. Chairman.] What steps have been taken 
to carry out the proposals in the Report of the 
A4 SHve 
Hon. 
C. Vivian. 
10 July 
1871.'