ox SLAVE TRADE (EAST COAST OF AFRICA). 
69 
y 968. Sir J. Hay.'] That was in the island of 
^^Qzibar ?—Yes. 
1 969. Mr. Crum-Ewing.] Does Wiseman’s 
trade witli the interior of Africa?—I am 
aware, but I know that a ship has just come 
T^^Oie direct from Zanzibar for them ; the chief 
^fade between Zanzibar and Europe comes 
arougli a Hamburg house. 
1 970. Sir R. AustrutUer.] independently of 
^•ïiane considerations, are not you of opinion 
^^at commercially it would be well worth our 
^^ile to make an outlay for the purpose of sup- 
Dessing the slave trade, and putting a stop to 
depopulation of large tracts of country which 
How going on ?—I cannot speak too strongly 
that [loint ; a great part of the East Coast 
Africa is useless for any purposes of commerce 
^.Present. Of export you may say there is no- 
except a few hides from the northern part, 
''Vhere the Somalis are in power, slaves, ivory, and 
? little gold dust ; nothing else comes from the 
^^lerior. I have no doubt were the slave trade 
^^"^pped a very large trade with Europe might 
®Mng up at Zanzibar, because the produce from 
eastern part of Africa must inevitably come 
^'H'ougb Zanzibar. Zanzibar would become a 
^Gcond Singapore or Kurrachee for that part of 
World, more especially now the Suez Canal 
opened ; and, I think, it should be our policy 
^11 considerations to try and get a stop put to 
horrible loss of life ; commercially it would 
A of the greatest importance to us. According 
7 the accounts of the recent discoveries of Dr. 
hivingstone and others, we have in the interior of 
^^t part of Africa a country equal in resources to 
part of India, and I believe more healthy as 
? ^Hle ; the sea-board and the rivers are unhealthy, 
.^t when you get some distance from the coast you 
to a lovely table land, and it is a country 
^hich, from what I saw, and from what I know 
other men who have travelled there, is 
Acourf in beauty to hardly any in the world, and 
, is also a most productive country. Iron 
^^Ounds in all directions ; in fact the Portuguese 
all their iron from there. Coal is to be found ; 
^ad f have seen myself in large quantities, and 
^^tton can be grown to any extent. I have 
Very large quantities of cotton there. 
971. In fact, apart from all humane considera- 
^•^Hs, you think it would be for our interest to 
an outlay for the suppression of this trade? 
^les; but independently of our interest I think 
Englishmen, as a people so blessed as we are, 
M as a people who profess to put down the 
trade in different parts of the world, our 
^^Gpiost duty is to stop this frightful loss of life, 
^^ficularly when we consider that there are only 
Q ®W treaties which have never been abided by in 
Way. The plainer we make things for the 
the better; hitherto there has been a vast 
^Hnt of confusion ; they do not know* what we 
and I candidly confess that such transac- 
as those I spoke of, in which Englishmen 
had to do with the slave trade, give them 
q to complain of us, and give rise to compli - 
j I ^Hs. I have seen a French ship lying at the 
of Johanna, crammed with slaves, with 
Qf 9 of our men-of-wmr within a cable’s length 
an 1 the poor creatures jumping overboard 
swimming to us to protect them ; and the 
would say to us, there is a Frenchman 
full of slaves, if it was one of our ships you 
burn her directly ; why do not you go and 
^•116. 
take her? All these things lead to complications. Rev. 
and the sooner they are simplified by action pur II. Waller, 
et simple the better. ” TT 
972. Mr. Gilpin.] Have you yourself seen the 
dhows going dow n the river laden with slaves ?— ^ D * 
Not dhows, but canoes. I have seen 20 or more 
in a day, laden w ith slaves, going down the River 
Shire into the Portuguese dominions. 
973. Sir R. Avstruther.] When wms that ?— 
In 1864. 
974. As to the healthiness of the coast, does 
not it depend principally upon the habits of the 
European settlers there ; would not a man who 
was tolerably sober and correct in his habits have 
a better chance of keeping himself in health than 
a man of Intemperate habits ?—It used to be said 
on the West Coast that a stock of tombstones 
should be kept at Sierra Leone for the use of 
those that died there, and that one sentence w ould 
describe all their deaths,‘‘brandy and water.” 
That really has a good deal to do with it, but I 
must state this, that a man who lives in an un 
healthy place very soon becomes demoralised in 
mind and body, and he is very likely to take to 
an unwholesome way of living. I think it would 
not be safe for a man to stay there long ; but, in 
connection with your question, I should like to 
state from information I have received from Dr. 
Kirk recently, that he is decidedly of opinion 
that a station might be found on the mainland 
near to Zanzibar, wdiere Europeans could live in 
perfect health, and where, if it were necessary, 
liberated slaves could be sent to be kept under 
safe supervision. 
975. Chairman.] What place is that?—Near 
to Dar Seelam ; Dr. Steere will be before you 
to-morrow, and he will be able to give you more 
information upon that subject than I can. 
976. Mr. Gilpin.] To what extent were British 
subjects and British protected subjects in the 
habit of holding slaves when you were in 
Zanzibar ?—I was not in Zanzibar, and I am not 
able to answer that question. 
977. You have probably not seen that paper 
with reference to British protected subjects 
(handing to the Witness the Draft Report of the 
Foreign Office Committee, vide Appendix)!:—I 
know that the question of the status of British 
protected subjects at Zanzibar is a very vital 
question ; they are now, owing to our very lax 
treatment of the question, throwing off their 
allegiance to the British Government in order 
that they may claim that of the Arabs, and so 
engage in the slave trade and be slaveholders. 
978. Mr. J. Talhot.] With regard to the de 
populated country between the coast and Lake 
Nyassa, which you say is like a desert, you think 
it could be again made very productive ?—Of 
course it must take some time for the remnants 
of those tribes which have been driven north, 
south, east, and west to come back to their old 
country. 
979. Do you think that there is still pojnila- 
tion sufficient in that part of Africa to re-inhabit 
that country and to re-cultivate it?—Without 
doubt there is population sufficient in the neigh 
bourhood of the lakes ; I may state this, as a 
peculiar feature of the depopulation going on in 
that part of the country, that when destruction 
and disturbance come, the natives are obliged t:o 
make for either a lake or a river, because, 
as I have stated, no corn can be sown except 
during the wet season in the highlands ; but 
I 3 there