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would advise the four men there to stay where they are, because if
they travel about they would not be likely to find employment.
Mr. GiBsoN. Your statements are based upon dependable information
 that comes to your bureau?
Mr. JonEs. As closely as people can develop this information.
Mr. GiBsoN. The unemployment situation in the United States
is bad, isn’t it—generally speaking?
Mr. Jones. It is not good.
Mr. GisoN. You have been inquiring or you have been asked why
you haven’t done this and have not done that in this or that section.
It is perfectly apparent to me that you haven’t had the money to
operate. Let me make one suggestion to you as one member of the
committee. When you make a request for money, don’t be too
modest. The probability is that you will not get enough when you
ask for it, and the chances are you will not get very much.
The CuairMaN. Yes. This committee will back you up.
Mr. Jonms. Yes, I have been advised so much—‘“don’t ask for
more than you think you will get.”
The CruairMaN. Let us follow that up. We may as well handle
some matters in public hearing as in executive session. You may be
forbidden, as head of the division, to give information?
Mr. Jones. You will excuse me.
The CrairmaN. In getting up estimates for the Department of
Labor or any other department, the chiefs of bureaus get their information
 from their subsidiary divisions of what their needs for the
next year will be, and the chief of that bureau reports to his secretary
and he is informed before his report comes in that his estimate must
be kept down to the previous year’s estimate. Am I not about right?
Mr. Jones. I do not want to answer your question, Mr. Chairman,
but you are pretty well informed.
The CrAIRMAN. So now you are going to start, no matter what
the circumstances are, with a command that the coming year’s estimate
 must not be larger than last year’s estimate to make an extraordinary
 showing, which you must do to get anything larger. When
that is all sent over to the Bureau of the Budget, it is likely to be sent
back with request to trim it, amounting almost to a horizontal
proposition. But now they have cut you off in a position where
you know you have got to trim everything.
(The witness indicated reluctance to reply.)
The CrairMaN. 1 will not pursue it further. I do not want to
embarrass the gentleman. ,
Mr. Jones. This is an interesting part of this hearing.
Mr. GiBson. Let me suggest that the chairman, by his questions,
and the witness by his attitude, show the existence pretty conclusively
of this bureaucracy that is gripping the Government and the people
by the throats. .
The Cuairman. Not only gripping the Government, but it is
gripping Congressmen, controlling them.
Mrs. Lanerey. I wish to question him just a moment about the
section I happen to represent—Kentucky. What does your observafon
 show with respect to lack of employment in those coal fields
of Kentucky? I might add we employ practically all native help in
the mining mdustry?
Mr. Jones. I know you do.