AGRICULTURAL RELIEF 
191 
Mr. Kenoe. But the debenture fee is a long ways off from the 
American farmer; it is away out at the point of export. It will 
mean nothing to him. It will drive him into the hands of the middle 
man and he will get the debenture, because the producer can not 
go to Europe and buy stuff and bring it back. He will simply be 
turned over to the tender mercies of organized speculators in deben- 
tures. 
Mr. Jones. Not if you distribute the burden and make them all 
pay the cooperative. This can be issued to the cooperative organi- 
zation and if necessary can be limited to the cooperative organization. 
I don’t think you have studied this question as much as you have 
the one you are presenting. 
Mr. Kesoe. Of course, you do not want me to take up time 
arguing all these bills. 
Mr. Jones. You made the statement, though. I had no idea 
of bringing it up until you made the statement that there was no 
other plan that could accomplish this purpose. When you undertake 
to exclude all other plans, I feel like I must take some issue with you. 
I would not have done so if you had simply said that you thought 
this plan would do the work, but when you undertook to say there 
can not be any other plan that can also do the work, I felt like that 
was a little broader statement. 
Mr. Kenok. I did not say there could not be any other plan— 
I said “in my judgment”. 
. Mr. CrarkE. Do not discourage ambition that is lurking in every 
osoin. 
Mr. Jones. That is not a question of ambition at all. I am 
perfectly willing for somebody else, and somebody else has introduced 
measures along the same line and others are considering introducing 
them. 
Mr. KesOE. I always liked to see the witness come with a definite 
idea of his own. 
Mr. Jones. I do, too. 
Mr. Kesoe. And that is what I am here with. 
Mr. Jones. But I did not like the statement nobody else had 
a real plan to go quite unchallenged. If I understood Mr. Kehoe 
he said there could not be any other plan. 
Mr. KeuokE. I said “in my judgment’ there was no other plan. 
I would not, of course, claim for myself or any other man, infallibility. 
Mr. Jones. You have made a very intelligent witness. 
Mr. KEnok. Let me come to the matter of the expense of these 
operations. 
Mr. AsweLL. Mr. Kehoe, before you go on that—I am not going 
to interrupt him but just this time, I think: This bill that we are 
considering provides specifically and wholly for the handling of the 
surplus; as I understand you to say, you did not have any surplus 
in your tobacco. Then, how will it apply to your tobacco? 
Mr. Kenoke. I said we did not think we had a surplus. 
Mr. AsweLL. Well, do you now—— 
Mr. Keno. We had to carry the crop—— 
Mr. AsweLL. My question is this, specifically—this surplus plan, 
how would it apply to you? 
Mr. Kesoe. We were told we bad the surplus, and we were told 
falsely; and I came here and told you gentlemen of this committee 
I did not believe it was true. But they made us carry the 1923, the