AGRICULTURAL RELIEF

191

Mr. Kenoe. But the debenture fee is a long ways off from the
American farmer; it is away out at the point of export. It will
mean nothing to him. It will drive him into the hands of the middle
man and he will get the debenture, because the producer can not
go to Europe and buy stuff and bring it back. He will simply be
turned over to the tender mercies of organized speculators in deben-
tures.

Mr. Jones. Not if you distribute the burden and make them all
pay the cooperative. This can be issued to the cooperative organi-
zation and if necessary can be limited to the cooperative organization.
I don’t think you have studied this question as much as you have
the one you are presenting.

Mr. Kesoe. Of course, you do not want me to take up time
arguing all these bills.

Mr. Jones. You made the statement, though. I had no idea
of bringing it up until you made the statement that there was no
other plan that could accomplish this purpose. When you undertake
to exclude all other plans, I feel like I must take some issue with you.
I would not have done so if you had simply said that you thought
this plan would do the work, but when you undertook to say there
can not be any other plan that can also do the work, I felt like that
was a little broader statement.

Mr. Kenok. I did not say there could not be any other plan—
I said “in my judgment”.

. Mr. CrarkE. Do not discourage ambition that is lurking in every
osoin.

Mr. Jones. That is not a question of ambition at all. I am
perfectly willing for somebody else, and somebody else has introduced
measures along the same line and others are considering introducing
them.

Mr. KesOE. I always liked to see the witness come with a definite
idea of his own.

Mr. Jones. I do, too.

Mr. Kesoe. And that is what I am here with.

Mr. Jones. But I did not like the statement nobody else had
a real plan to go quite unchallenged. If I understood Mr. Kehoe
he said there could not be any other plan.

Mr. KeuokE. I said “in my judgment’ there was no other plan.
I would not, of course, claim for myself or any other man, infallibility.

Mr. Jones. You have made a very intelligent witness.

Mr. KEnok. Let me come to the matter of the expense of these
operations.

Mr. AsweLL. Mr. Kehoe, before you go on that—I am not going
to interrupt him but just this time, I think: This bill that we are
considering provides specifically and wholly for the handling of the
surplus; as I understand you to say, you did not have any surplus
in your tobacco. Then, how will it apply to your tobacco?

Mr. Kenoke. I said we did not think we had a surplus.

Mr. AsweLL. Well, do you now——

Mr. Keno. We had to carry the crop——

Mr. AsweLL. My question is this, specifically—this surplus plan,
how would it apply to you?

Mr. Kesoe. We were told we bad the surplus, and we were told
falsely; and I came here and told you gentlemen of this committee
I did not believe it was true. But they made us carry the 1923, the