AGRICULTURAL RELIEF 
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would do, stabilize the price of farm commodities, if he was aware 
that they might pay a little more, and this was his reply—I have 
said that time and again to the committee that they were willing to 
pay the bill, and he wound up his statement and said, “I would like 
very much to go back to the farm if I could do anything to maintain 
the rural population and maintain an equality for the rural popula- 
tion; to maintain an equality for the rural population, an equality 
of opportunity on the farm, is to our interest, and that is why I am 
here. Now, the consuming public appreciates this whole situation 
and we are here defending this bill.” 
In other words, if this does what we hope it will do—it is hoped 
that it will stabilize the price and not subject it to such violent ups 
and downs, probably the consuming public will not be hurt, and if 
we can not charge what loss may come through that operation back 
to the entire production, we will have to abandon that idea of trying 
to control the surplus, and that seems to be the chief reason of 
reaction I get that if they do not get the fee they will not try to 
operate under this bill. 
Mr. KirLcore. That is so. That was distinctly the position of 
the Burley Tobacco Association’s representative and of the Dark 
Tobacco Association’s representative. Both of those associations 
have suspended operations as cooperatives. The Burley Association 
Is operating its warehouses under the old auction system, for the 
very reason that you have stated there that they will not go out and 
attempt to sign up a membership without an equalization fee that 
will enable them to handle the surplus, and they have gone back to 
the old method of marketing, so as to use their facilities which they 
have accumulated in these past years, and to hold themselves to- 
gether in the hope of legislation of this kind that will put them on 
their feet. 
Mr. Apkins. The idea I have got from these organizations repre- 
sented here before this committee—one of the chief things that they 
hope to accomplish through this legislation is to prevent, if possible, 
the violent ups and downs of the market. The proposition, whether 
it be a bounty or debenture, simply adds to the existing price, what- 
ever the tariff may be or whatever agreed on the side for the deben- 
ture, will in no way stabilize the market so far as ups and downs is 
concerned. If the speculator, as charged—I am not saying that, but 
it is charged freely here—that if the speculator bulls put the price up 
high, or if they put it down low, the debenture would simply be the 
addition to what tariffs would be, but would have no influence in 
stabilizing the market and preventing the violent ups and downs of 
the market. You would just simply add on a little to whatever was 
the existing market created by such agencies as control the price. 
Mr. KiLcore. I did not want to get into the debenture side of it. 
Mr. Apxkins. I know, but I am presenting that feature. If the 
theory that you are advancing on this equilization fee plan does 
stabilize—and that is what we hope to do? 
Mr. KiLcore. Yes. 
Mr. Apkins. The fact if you adopt a debenture or a bounty, or 
whatever you may do to add so much to the price, you add that to 
the price whatever it may be. Your markets will function just as 
they do now. You will have the same ups and downs in the market, 
but the debenture or bounty added to it, and the feature that you