338 AGRICULTURAL RELIEF 
They are making a margin of profit on every bushel of wheat, which 
is limited only by the number of the exporters in the field. That 
is a sound position, I believe; and by adding an export debenture 
is not going to reduce the number of exporters by one. There will 
be just the same exporters and they will be making just as large 
margins and no more, because competition determines the amount 
of margin which they shall make to-day. 
Now, as a farmer, knowing that I can get the price at Liverpool, 
which we will assume is a dollar, plus 21 cents, I am not going to 
be willing to sell in Amercia for less than $1.21; and when I say 
as a farmer, I mean the wheat growers of America are not going to 
be willing to sell in America for less than they can get by exporting 
it; and they have this great aggregation of exporters to turn to. 
And unless you contend that the exporters will perfect an organiza- 
tion to restrict trade to the point where they can take a larger 
margin than they are taking to-day, the contention that the whole 
price level in America will not rise, must fall. : 
Mr. KixcreLoe. What would you do if England was to put on 
a retaliatory tariff there of 21 cents? 
Mr. Goss. I think that question would arise in the case of any 
measure which might be passed. There is no reason why a. tariff 
should be set up against such a measure. for this is not a dumping 
measure. :. 
Myr. Kinoneroe. I understand so, but it would be sold in the world 
market and you get a debenture back by exporting and selling in 
the world’s markets. Take Liverpool, for example; suppose England 
would put a tariff of 21 cents a bushel on American wheat coming 
into that country, and let Canadian wheat come in. free. I was just 
wondering what effect this bill would have on that situation. : 
Mr. Goss. I think, Mr. Kincheloe, that you are rather getting the 
wrong slant on just what this measure does. 
Mr. KincuELOE. 1 am trying to find out what it would do if that 
happened. 
25 Krrcaan. It would not raise the price of wheat to England 
at all? 
Mr. Goss. It would not. 
Mr. KincareLoE. I understand this will not, but on general prin- 
ciples, suppose England would put on a retaliatory tariff of 21 
cents a bushel in order to protect Canadian wheat? 
Mr. Goss. They might do that to-day, and there is just as much 
cause for them to do that to-day as under this bill. 
My. KixcurLok. I think so, too. 
Mr. Goss. This is not a dumping measure. This bill starts with 
world markets, and that is the basis of the price making. There is 
no price fixing; it just takes the world markets, and adds to that 
price the difference in cost of production between home and abroad. 
Mr. Kixcueroe. Have you figured out what is the average de- 
benture rate in per cent on these commodities? 
Mr. Goss. It will vary. 
Me KiNcHELOE.- I mean the general debenture rate. - 
one. Toss. ve oi say this, Mr. Kincheloe: We have taken roughly 
dian e tariff. We have varied it in some things, but roughly 
» taken one-half of the tariff as a place to begin.