356 
AGRICULTURAL RELIEF 
the year wiil exceed the five-year average, the debenture rates will be 
cut on 60 days’ notice by a percentage which is in inverse ratio to the 
increase, roughly. The table of reductions in rates will be found in 
subdivision: (e), section 7, on page 12, and are as follows: 
If there is a 20 per cent increase there is no reduction ; if there is an increase 
of 20 to 40 per cent there is a 20 per cent reduction; if there is an increase of 
some 40 to 60 per cent the debenture rate will be cut in half. 
Mr. Kincueror. Do 'you mean by that that all over of a certain 
crop that exceeds an average of five years that you are not going to 
pay any debenture on that? 
Mr. Goss. No; the whole crop. The whole debenture rate will be 
cut on the whole crop. 
Mr. Kincuerog. That is what I mean. You propose to say to the 
farmer that “if you raise any over an average of the last five years 
of any one commodity that we propose to reduce the debenture rate- 
ably ? 
Mr. Goss. Give him a leeway of 20 per cent. 
Mr. KrNCHELOE. The economists who are supposed economists have 
been before this committee time and again and have told us that there 
1s no such a thing as a surplus over a period of five years on these 
asic commodities. 
Mr. Goss. There is a difference of opinion as to what constitutes a 
surplus. 
Mr. Kincaeror. Over and above the basic requirements; that is 
what I mean by “surplus.” 
Mr. Goss. Over and above the domestic requirements? 
Mr. KinceELOE. Yes, Sir. 
Mo. Goss. This would provide against building up a surplus. The 
argument, as you know, Mr. Kincheloe, is often raised that if you 
raise the price of wheat 21 cents you are going to bring a lot more 
on es Ji production, and this is to provide that if they bring more 
than per cent acreage into production the debenture rate will be 
Mr. Kincueroe. That is 20 per cent over the five years? 
Mr. Goss. That is 20 per cent over the five-year average. 
Mr. KincuaELOE. If those economists are correct there is no surpl 
over five years? oT rR 
Mr. Goss. It is not a surplus. 
Ie lig ro mean world surplus? 
r. Goss. Noj if the total ion i . ‘ rer: 
for five oars by 90 por Lota production is greater than the average 
Mr Kixcaeror. In the world or United States? 
iy Ges, The United States. 
Ir. KincueLoE. That is what I thought 
Mr. Goss. The rates ar i 2 you Fagan. 
and they would go into 02 Senthil be wh They are mandatory, 
lutelv ia elim hio / point where the debenture abso- 
ely is eliminated if you double production 
Mr. For. Mr. Goss, on that subject, have y 
out the operation of this thing in oll ave oe ziternypied by work 
for example, 20 per: cent increase in ou ee To 
you make no reduction in debt r wheat production for which 
bushels a year. would it not e entures would be, rouchly. 160.000.000 
Mr. Goss. Yes a