Report from the Select Committee on Slave Trade (East Coast of Africa); together with the proceedings of the Committee, minutes of evidence, appendix and index

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Monograph

Identifikator:: 832922498

URN:: urn:nbn:de:zbw-retromon-79587

Document type:: Monograph

Title:: Report from the Select Committee on Slave Trade (East Coast of Africa); together with the proceedings of the Committee, minutes of evidence, appendix and index

Place of publication:: [London]

Publisher:: [The House of Commons]

Year of publication:: 1871

Scope:: 1 Online-Ressource (XXIV, 242 S.)

Collection:: Economics Books

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20 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE Sir Foreign Office most distinctly to say that, as the JV. Kaye. Imperial Government will not have any concern j jyj with it of any kind, and as the Government of 1871/ India protest very strongly against paying for anything connected with the slave trade, we think that the Foreign Office should cease to send in structions to our agent at Zanzibar at all, thus leaving it to the Imj)erial Government to appoint their own agent there if they like. 262. Have you sent him any instructions as your agent, to discontinue his endeavours to sup press the slave trade ?—The Secretary of State for India certainly has sent him no such in structions, but it is possible that the Government of India may have done so. I suppose that state of things described in the letter which has just been read by Mr. Vivian, that the Government of India were rather encouraging than otherwise the trade in slaves, or at all ev'cnts, not dis couraging it, has arisen out of this very embroglio to which we have been referring. 263. Would the agent at Zanzibar be allowed to act as judge of the Vice Admiralty Court still ?—That is a question I have not considered. I think that the Government of India would not allow anything to take place that would cause any embarrassment and confusion. I conceive, therefore, that he would still act as judge of the Vice Admiralty Court. 264. Is much of his time taken up in slave trade matters?—Í should consider that a larger part of his time was taken up with slave trade matters than with anything connected with India, but upon that question Mr. Churchill is ready to give evidence. 265. Mr. J. Talbot.'] Do you think that the Sultan of Zanzibar, with the view of getting re leased from this subsidy, is putting a pressure upon us by encouraging the slave trade?—I think it is very likely. Syed Mejid died whilst IVIiv Churchill was in Zanzibar, after that gentle man had sat upon the Slave Trade Committee, and I have no doubt that Syed Burgash thinks it very likely that he will be relieved from the payment of the subsidy, 266. The more he encourages the slave trade, the more pressure he puts upon the Government to relieve him from the payment of the subsidy ? —I think it is very probable. 267. With regard to the suggestions of the Slave Trade Committee, of which you say you have no doubt the Treasury had cognisance^ have they been officially pressed upon the Treasury as a means by which the slave trade might be abolished?—The Foreign Office have pressed these considerations upon the Treasury, and the Slave Trade Report was laid before Parliament. 268. Did the Treasury, after it was pressed upon them that by a small expenditure they could abolish the slave trade on the east coast of Africa, take upon themselves the responsibility of refusing that small expenditure ?—Undoubtedly they did; the refusal was made when they addressed the letter to the Foreign Office to which I have referred. 269. Lord K. Cavendish.] The main part of the slaves exported from Zanzibar go to Muscat, do they not ?—Some do ; I do not think the main proportion do. 270. Have we any treaty with the Imaum of Muscat for the suppression of the foreign slave trade?—Yes; the original treaties were made with the Imaum of Muscat, when he was also ruler of Zanzibar. 271. If the non-fulfilment of the conditions of that treaty with the Imaum of Muscat is one of the chief causes of the encouragement of this trade, do you consider that we are bound to enforce the payment of the subsidy to the Imaum of Muscat, in the case of his non-fulfilment of such engagement?—I do not think that this ar rangement which was made for the payment of the 40,000 crowns by the Sultan of Zanzibar to the Imaum of Muscat, had any bearing upon anything connected with the slave trade at all. The arrangement was come to on this considera tion, that the revenues of Zanzibar were larger than the revenues of Muscat, and it was supposed that the payment was necessary to the ruler of Muscat, with reference to his engagements to others ; in point of fact, Muscat was originally the substantive state, Zanzibar being only a sort of appendage it; and the question was, whether Muscat, being the more warlike state of the two, would not attack Zanzibar, and whether the Imaum of Muscat would not say. In my father’s time Muscat and Zanzibar were one kingdom, and I will make it one king dom now.” This arrangement was come to, to prevent any such disturbance, and it had no reference to the slave trade whatever. Of course any breach or violation of treaty on the part of Muscat towards the British Government, may be punished by us as we think fit, but it was not with reference to any revenues from slaves that the agreement as to the subsidy was made. 272. Do you consider it reasonable that he should expect the power of England to be used to enforce the payment of this sum to him, when he is putting us to an immense expense in the arrangements we are making for the suppression of the slave trade, in consequence of his not ob serving his treaty ?—It is a question whether he is putting us to enormous expense. I do not suppose that our squadron is mainly employed on this service. 273. We were told by Mr. Vivian, that by far the largest proportion of the slaves from Zanzi bar are taken to Muscat?—That, no doubt, was stated on much better information than I am able to give upon the subject. The details of the slave trade .are superintended by the Forei^-n Ofime. 274. The recommendation of the Committee of which you were a member, with respect to the payment of our consular establishment at Zanzi bar, was only a small part of the recommendations of that Committee ?—We made several other re commendations. 275. Amongst other recommendations which you made, you suggested that a new treaty should be made with the Sultan of Zanzibar ?— 276. Have you any reason to suppose that the Sultan of Zanzibar would accept such a treaty as you recommended?—I think he would, if we released him from the subsidy, or paid him an equivalent. My recommendation is, that if we do not feel ourselves to be in such a political position as to release him from the subsidy, we should pay the money ourselves. 277. Did I rightly understand you to say that the mere payment of 1,500 /. a year, by the Im perial Exchequer, would put an end to the slave trade on the east coast of Africa ?—I have not stated that ; I wish distinctly to be understood to

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