Report from the Select Committee on Slave Trade (East Coast of Africa); together with the proceedings of the Committee, minutes of evidence, appendix and index

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Monograph

Identifikator:: 832922498

URN:: urn:nbn:de:zbw-retromon-79587

Document type:: Monograph

Title:: Report from the Select Committee on Slave Trade (East Coast of Africa); together with the proceedings of the Committee, minutes of evidence, appendix and index

Place of publication:: [London]

Publisher:: [The House of Commons]

Year of publication:: 1871

Scope:: 1 Online-Ressource (XXIV, 242 S.)

Collection:: Economics Books

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30 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE Mr. H. A. Churchillj C.B. 17 July 1871. we are already paying that?—Yes; butlpro- pose that it should be taken away from him, and then held out to him as an inducement to make a treaty, 390, But has he at present sufficient powers to enforce such a treaty unless his means were increased ?—To the extent of the treaty that we recommended in the Foreign Office Committee 1 should think he might. 391, He would be able to confine the export of slaves to one port, would he not?—Yes, I think so, 39Í1, Sir Ä A ristruther.~\ But if he cannot en force his own decree with regard to the resale of slaves for the northern Arabs, for his own sub jects, what means would he have of enforcing such a treaty ?—There are a great many reasons for not enforcing the decrees ; many of his own people are engaged in the slave trade, the great folks of Zanzibar, and when they are detected he does not like to punish them, 393. Would not that apply also to the liberated slaves ?—We should have a supervision over them; we should prevent them being kidnapped. I dare say some might be kidnapped, but, on the whole, I think w e might protect them sufficiently well. Ihe Sultan’s own slaves are sometimes kidnapped. 394. Then the expense of the protection to liberated slaves would fall on us, and nob on him —1 o a certain extent it would fall upon us, certainly. 395. Lord F. Cavendish.'] Could you state at all what expenditure we should be put to in_ order to enable the Sultan to put an end to this treaty. We have had it in evidence that the mere expenditure of 1,500/. a year, and the fees of a consular establishment, would put an end to the slave trade ; is that your opinion ?— No, certainly not. That would lead in a con siderable degree to bringing the matter to a close ultimately ; but I do not think it would put an end to the slave trade at all. 396. Can you give the Committee any kind of estimate with regard to the expenditure we should be put to in order really to grapple with this trade?—I cannot. 397. Can you form any opinion whatever of what the expense would be ?—No ; it would be a matter for future negotiations, I should say. 398. If the slave trade was confined to one port on the adjacent coast, would it not have the effect very much of increasing the land journey ?—Yes ; it would have the effect of in creasing the land journey by the distance exist ing between Kilwa and Dar Selam; that would be a matter of four or five days, 399. And on those four or five days the suffer ing would be very considerable, would it not?— hiot more considerable than the sufferings of the slaves in the dhows. 400. I think you stated that, after all, this trade, like all other trades, depended on the de mand; should we not have a better chance of checking it if we checked the demand by making the landing of slaves much more difficult in Muscat, and the other places ?—Yes, certainly. I propose that we should call on the Suitan of Muscat, and the chiefs of the Persian Gulf, to prevent the importation of slaves into their dominions and to punish those who engage in the trade. 401. Muscat is the main port of entry, is it iiot ?—No ; not Muscat itself, but all the small ports along the coast of Arabia on the Gulf of Oman. 402. Are they all subject to the Imaum of IVfuscat ?—Yes, most of them. 403. What other rulers are there beyond ?— Beyond, in the Persian Gulf, there is the Chief of Bahrein, and a little low er down, the Chief of Abuthubbee. 404. Do they encourage or restrain the slave trade ?—They encourage it just as the rest do, by allowing their subjects to carry on the trade with impunity. 405. Ihey have a large pecuniary interest in It, have they not?—Yes, indirectly. 406. Have we any treaties with them ? — Yes, with all of them. 407. But all those treaties are evaded, are they not?—Yes; Colonel Disbrow, who went the round of many of those ports, saw slaves landed openly there. 408. Chah'inan.] Have not many^ British sub jects placed themselves under the Sultan of Zanzibar, in order to be able to hold slaves with impunity ?—A great many. , 409. That is principally- since the Naturalisa tion Act has become known there, is it not ?—It is many years ago that British protected subjects of India were allowed to take the protection of the Sultan of Zanzibar ; ever since the vear 1862, I think. 410. Do you mean that they were allow^ed that protection by the connivance of the British Government ? — General Rigby prohibited it; at least, it was never entertained during his time • but when he was succeeded by Colonel Pelly, it then began to be allowed ; and in Colonel Play- fan s time, w'^itii the sanction of the Government of Bombay, I believe, the Sultan was told that British protected subjects who had not entered their names in the consular register, were to be considered as Arab subjects. The first question the Sultan asked was whether they rnio-fit hold slaves, and he was told that they were considered as Arab subjects, and mi^lit do what they liked and they immediately began to buy slaves. 411. On whose authority was such a statement made; was it on the authority of the Govern ment of India ? — I am under the impression that it was ; it could not be otherwise, I should say ; but when I went to Zanzibar this subject attracted my attention, and I made representa tions about it, and the answer that I obtained from the Bombay Government was, co the effect that it might be very proper to deprive the said Indians of their slaves, but who was goino* to pay the compensation to which they would be entitled ; certainly not the Indian Government. However, the question was very well ventilated and the last orders of the Indian Government were that, although they should be allowed to keep the slaves they had, they were not to buy or sell any more. ^ T ^ ^ questions for Lord Enfield, who has left the room for a short time; the first is, are you aware that the late Sultan of Zanzibar ever violated the Slave Trade lieaty . I have never heard of his having done so. 413. Did he discourage, as far as he could, the visits of the northern dhowsf—He did; on one occasion he went so far as to say that he would L ™ dhow that came from the north. I thought it a very general way of putting it, and I proposed that he should only burn those dhows that

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