33 
ON SLAVE TRADE (EAST COAST OE AFRICAX 
that when Colonel Hanierton first went to 
^^anzibar, lie was very mncli surprised to find that 
slave trade had already acquired such dim en- 
^^orig as he observed ; but at that time the slave 
^ Atle was very much less, and on a very much 
^ aller scale than it is now. The Arabs in the 
^^ighbourhood of the Persian Gulf, and on the 
are naturally a very active maritime peo- 
th^' I'l’obably a century and a half, before 
Ver of this century, they had been 
bu/ fpirates, not only on their own coast, 
down the coast of Africa, and along the 
ast of India, as far as Singapore, certainly, 
■svl fbat one of the hereditary modes in 
^ they employed the maritime energy of the 
eb/T that time piracy. That was 
olfi. almost supressed by our naval 
tr then the pirates turned to the slave 
of^tf ’ d'bere can be no doubt that a great many 
people, and the vessels, and the firm's 
atif? engaged in slaving, are the sons 
Sel - ^^"dsons of those who used to devote them- 
ti-a'l^^ to piracy. I have no doubt, if the slave 
Peo^^i stopped, you tvould find these same 
Avl devote themselves with equal energv to 
lat^’We should call legitimate commerce. 
dT. Do you recollect ])retty nearly the date 
pt>löuel Ilamerton went to Zanzibar?—I 
it was about 1837 or 1838. 
Clui 'i í you heard a portion of Mr. 
big . di’s evidence, and probably you have read 
»Uv^T^^^ncc given on the former day : have you 
®'^^‘^i’bs_to make on that evidence?—I have 
that ^'dth regard to the facts of the case 
a^n Churchill's evidence is very full, and 
^ entirely disagree with the 
sG *^^08 he proposes for putting a stop to the 
Cyp ^ ti'^de. It appears to me that the cardinal 
tion pdch you have to deal with, is the oscilla- 
abo e opinions in the matter. Up to 
tbo time when Lord Palmerston died, 
Parti^^^”-^ years, the general opinion of all 
deter • had been in favour of a 
'viler ^ .stop to the slave trade 
could possibly do so without in- 
'vlw^^^ ^''pbts of other nations, and the 
bee^^ " eight of the Government influence had 
on the side of suppressing the slave 
that ot late years it has been manifest 
of Q 'Ore has been very considerable wavering 
of ‘ own opinions upon the subject. Many 
who were most active in promoting 
in bor the suppression of the slave trade 
have thought, perhaps, that the 
oflbet done ; and because the work was 
p carried out on the M est Coast of 
anq ^ "'ey have ratlier relaxed their efforts, 
of ^ ^9 ®ces in public writings a good deal 
fai^n. 'od of excuse for slavery, which ccr- 
" Oarg ^'ould not have been put forward some 
binq and would not have met with any 
^Oenig f Public favour and acceptance. That 
"e b^ ^ '"c to be the cardinal evil with which 
contend, and our Government, re- 
yoarg public opinion, ajipears to me of late 
^'fitter been very half-hearted in the 
^0 be P -*- be first thing to be done seems to me 
''■bat L ^ up cur own minds with regard to 
^^''Uegf (^cue, and whether we really are in 
449 ^ 'VC were 25 or 30 years ago. 
allowing upon that would naturally 
^'ciilq question, what measure you yourself 
Ule sla,_^?™cnd for adoption in order to stop 
b-Ue ^viide on the East Coast of Africa?— 
I should begin by saying that I do not agree 
with the opinion that Mr. Churchill has expressed, 
when he says that the Arabs do not understand 
forbearance. Ibelievethat, likcallotherstrono'- 
handed nations, at least those with whom I have 
had to deal, they understand real forbearance 
w len they know it is forbearance, and 
not weakness ; they understand it better 
than^ we do ourselves, perhaps, and they 
certainly do understand justice and tlieir own in 
terests. _ Our first business is to interest them 
on our side, and to carry their opinion with us, 
and to let them know what wo wish, and what 
we want, and what we think would be for their 
interest. As far as I have over seen those peo 
ple, and people of the same kind, they would be 
very apt to respond to that by taking'oiir advice 
and being a good deal guided bv mir wishes in 
the matter. That has certainly'been the case 
Avith regard to the suppression of piracy, and in 
man A other things in Avhich their own interests 
Avere A ery mucli concerned. When they once 
understood Avhat Ave Avanted and Avhat Ave Avished, 
and Avhy we wanted it, and why ive wished it, 
^ey have been very ready to come into our views. 
Ihey are not acted upon by fears in the Avay that 
weaker nations are, but when they have once 
made up their minds they are all on that account 
the more to be trusted. There Avere some other 
points connected with Mr. Churchill’s plans with 
winch 1 could not agree. I do not think that we 
have the slightest right to interfere Avith the in 
ternal taxation of Zanzibar ; Ave must leave them 
to tax CA ei’A body avIio lives under their rule very 
much in the way they think best. For the good 
..OAvn exchequer they Avould ahvays be 
Avilling in the long run, quite as willing as we 
are, to give due weight to our arguments in the 
inattei ; and I think throughout all our dealings 
with them we ought to recollect how long it took 
m our own country to put an end to'slavery. 
There are people noAv alive avIio can recollect 
domestic slavery in English homes ; it has been 
seen in a very recent generation in England itself, 
1 been by. persistent argument 
and effitrts that aa’c hai e arriv ed at our jiresent 
state of public and private morality on the 
subject. We ought to consider that the Arabs 
cannot be expected to be very much more rapid 
in the moA cment of public opinion among them 
than wc are among ourselves. I would say that 
the best measures for putting a stop to slkveiy, 
as tar as I can judge, on that coast, are those 
shadoAved out in the opinion gii en by Sir George 
Clerk’s government, quoted at Question 245, of 
Sir John Kaye’s CA'idenoe. That Avas given in 
Lord_ Canning’s time, and I think had Lord 
Canning’s complete assent. I need not mention 
that Lord Canning’s feelings were very much 
interested in the work of putting a stop to'slavery, 
and that his Avhole opinion was in favour of doing 
all that could be done to put an early stop to this 
branch of the slave trade. 
f'^^’1that, as a matter of explanation, 
I should say the CA idence given by Mr. Churchill 
Avith regard to Avhat you call interfering Avith 
the internal arrangements of Zanzibar arose from 
the fact that a portion of the treaty already made 
had not been carried out by the Sultan ; is not 
that so ?—I would rigidly enforce the treaty as 
far as it is fairly enforceable, but I Avould not 
attempt to carry treaties out by cutting off any 
source of revenue that is in itself a reasonable 
source of revenue, and to levy which does not 
interfere 
Sir B. Frei't 
G.C.S.I., 
g.c.b, 
17 July 
1871.