50 
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE 
Maj. Gen. Sultan might be induced to give up the slave 
C. P. Righy. trade if the 40,000 dollars which he annually 
pays as subsidy to the Imaum of Muscat, were re- 
20 July mitted, I am convinced that he'would never fall 
^ into that arrangement. When the mission was over 
here that was a point which the secretary urged 
upon me more than any other ; he said the Sultan 
of Zanzibar would rather give up the country and 
go to live at Mecca for the rest of his days. I 
think any negotiation upon that basis would be 
sure to fail ; the Sultan would look upon it as a 
great humiliation, and it would be so considered 
by all the Arabs ; they would say, there is the 
Sultan of Zanzibar become a paid servant of the 
Feringhee, and the chances are that he would 
lose his life. 
631. Would you abolish the trade and give 
him no compensation?—I -would not give him 
any compensation ; I do not see on what ground 
he can be supposed to be entitled to compensa 
tion for giving up this horrible slave trade, which 
they have carried on for years in defiance of 
treaties, and in defiance of all laws. 
632. You do not agree with the witnesses who 
have stated that it would cause a revolution in 
Zanzibar if the slave trade Avere put doAvn ?— 
No ; I think the Arabs are now quite prepared 
for its suppression ; it has been dinned into their 
ears for so many years, and they have seen slaves 
emancipated in so many other places, that I 
think they are quite prepared to see our Go 
vernment setting to work to put a stop to it. 
633. Sir R. Anstruther.~\ Do you agree Avith 
the statement in the paragraph at page 4 of the 
Foreign Office Report, that “the commerce of 
Zanzibar might be ruined if it Avere at once 
deprived of the slave labour on AAhich it has 
hitherto relied, before proper provision is made 
for supplying free labour in its stead?”—I do 
not think it Avould interfere Avith the commerce 
of Zanzibar in the slightest degree ; I think the 
Arabs would find their slaves more valuable ; 
they Avould take more care of them, and there 
would be less mortality amongst them ; and if 
the slave trade was prohibited so that free men 
could come and work there, there Avould be 
abundance of free labour, because, if the slave 
trade were abolished, thousands of people from 
Madagascar, from the Comoro Islands, and from 
India Avould come and reside at Zanzibar ; but 
the mere fact of all agricultural labour being 
done by slaves, deters those people at present 
from coming and engaging themselves in that 
work, because they think it degrades them to 
Avork side by side Avith slaves. 
634. In a preAuous part of the Report reference 
is made to the loss of revenue that Avould be in 
curred by the abolition of the trade. Would you 
propose to abolish the trade AAuthout compensating 
the Sultan in anyAvayfor the loss of revenue which 
he Avould thereby incur ?—As I have already 
stated, I think the loss of revenue would be very 
trivial indeed ; his revenue from other sources is 
so rapidly increasing that he Avould not feel very 
much the loss of that which he at present receives 
from slaves. 
635. Mr. Kennaway.~\ You expect him to give 
up the 20,000 /. Avhich he is supposed to derive 
from the slave trade; that is a “ decree of fate” 
which a man does not submit to without a struggle 
generally ?—I think, at the outside, it cannot be 
more than 8,000 1. which he gets from the duty 
on slaves. Mr. Churchill, I think, takes the 
whole number of slaves landed, including the 
slaAys belonging to members of the Sultan’s 
family Avhich do not pay any duty, and there are 
a great many branches of the Sultan’s family, 
the members of Avhich are the chief slave dealers. 
636. Do you think that the British Indian sub 
jects in Zanzibar are in any Avay supporters of the 
slaA^e trade?—They were very large supporters 
of the slave trade till I put a stop to it by putting 
up a notice at the Custom House and on the 
gates of the Consulate, that whereas I had dis 
covered that British subjects Avere holding slaves 
in violation of the laAA's, they Avould be alloAved 
one month from that date to emancipate them 
legally, and, failing to do so, the provisions of 
the Act 5 Geo. 4 Avould be applied to them. 
At the end of the month many of them did not 
emancipate their slaves, and they AA’^ere fined and 
imprisoned ; and gradually I forced them all to 
emancipate their slaves; but after I left, the 
officer Avho succeeded me took a different view of 
it, and he held that we had no right to do this 
with regard to native Indians Avho belonged to 
protected States ; and they have been alToAved, 
unfortunately, to become slave holders again. 
637. By taking the protection of other states ? 
No, merely on the ground that they Avere 
not directly British subjects, but only subjects 
of British protected states like Kutch. 
638. M ou Id they, in claiming to hold slaves, 
deprive themselves of the protection of the British 
Consulate ?—I do not knoAV on Avhat terms it was 
done, but I suppose those Avho declared them 
selves subjects of Kutch or Kattywar Avere 
allowed to throAV off their allegiance. 
639. Mr. Shaw Lefevre.~\ They then became 
entitled to hold slaves ?—Yes; I put a stop to 
their holding slaves, on this ground, that those 
men in their OAvn country Avould not be alloAved 
to hold slaves, for they Avould be prohibited by 
the British as the superior poAver, and it Avas not 
right that the subjects of those very states o-oing 
to Zanzibar should be permitted to hold sla-^es. 
640. Now, if a man wishes to hold slaves, all 
he has to do is to change his nationality?—Yes. 
641. Sir J. HayJ\ The Naturalisation Act 
Avas not in force Avhen you were there ?—No, 
they Avere prohibited from holding slaves ; I 
understand that the natives of India are going to 
take advantage of the Naturalisation Act, and to 
throAV off their allegiance to the British Govern 
ment on purpose to be able to trade in slaA^es. 
642. Mr. Churchill states that they haA'O 
already done so ?—I am sorry to hear it ; it AviH 
open a new^ field for slavery; a great proportion 
of the plantations on the Island of Zanzibar noAf 
belong to British subjects ; the Arabs are very 
dissipated and reckless, and they have morto-ao-ed 
most of their plantations to those wealthy BanianS 
and Indian Mahommedans. 
643. Who, having been British subjects, havß 
noAv become Zanzibar subjects ?—They Averc 
obliged, as long as they were British subjects, to 
cultivate their plantations by free labour ; noA^ 
they Avill buy slaves and cultivate them with 
slave labour again. 
644. You have no doubt that Mr. ChurchilD 
evidence upon that point is correct?—No; Dt* 
Kirk has Avritten to the same effect; that is aß 
additional argument Aiffiy we should stop tb^ 
whole trade summarily. 
645. Mr. Kennaivay.\ Do you know anything 
of the slave trade which is carried on betivecß 
the interior of Africa and Egypt, by Zanzibar ? 
That has sprung up chiefly since the abolition 
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