366 AGRICULTURAL RELIEF 
to which the shipments are mainly outbound, other ports with respect 
to which the shipments are mainly inbound; those ports may be a 
hundred miles or five hundred miles apart. There will have to be a 
market mechanism there. There will have to be people interested to 
get the debentures across from our surplus ports to our deficit ports, 
and they will need some compensation for their efforts. 
The individual who does not wish to sell his debenture to an im- 
porter to use, but who can use it himself, of course is not confronted 
with that necessity. 
Mr. KinonerLoE. They would be very scarce. 
Mr. Stewart. A very small item. 
Mr. Kincrrroe. He is not going over to England to buy manu- 
factured products to get the benefit of the debenture. 
Mr. Stewart. It would not be impossible, I think, in the case of 
some organization—perhaps a cooperative organization that was 
importing dutiable goods—to turn around and use the debentures 
which they might have received through the exportation of cotton or 
wheat in the payment of dutiable rates on some dutiable article com- 
ing in and handled by the supply department of such an organiza- 
tion. I do not say that is likely to be a widely prevalent practice. 
Mr. Kincueror. 1 want to get your judgment on this: Of course, 
the purpose of this bill is to take care of our surplus. Under the 
Ketcham bill there would be no way whereby any of the surplus com- 
modities of this country could be stored here for our own consump- 
tion, would there? 
Mr. Stewart. It may be, gentlemen, that the habits of mind of the 
specialist or not going to be especially helpful. I am simply trying 
to point out that here is one thing which can be. done. The thing 
which I believe you have in mind, Mr. Kincheloe, is the matter of 
handling what might be called weather-determined surpluses. 
Mr. KincHELOE. Carry-overs. 
Mr. Stewart. Resulting in carry-overs. 
Mr. KincaeLoE. For the purpose of lean crops; possibly. This bill 
would not handle that situation? 
Mr. Stewart. That is another story, as Kipling would say. 
Mr. Kercuam. Doctor Stewart, before you leave the export de- 
benture price would you be kind enough to give the committee the 
benefit of your judgment as to the most extreme variation that you 
would expect the debenture to have in the exchange conditions which 
you described a moment ago. 
~ Mr. Stewart. That question requires almost a graphic illustration, 
if I could give it. I have made such an analysis. This analysis is 
one which is on a small scale, and I am not dependable upon your 
seeing it. There is a seasonal ebb and flow in the movement of 
dutiable goods into the United States. I have that plotted out here 
for a period of six years. I will be glad to pass this around the table 
or any of you to examine [passing the same to the members of the 
committee]. 
Mr. Kincurroe. What commodities are you taking? 
Mr. Stewart. This is on all dutiable goods. 
Mr. KincreLoE. Oh, dutiable goods? 
5 Ar Sram Yes. With respect to the cost of debentures, some- 
ody handed me a scale of rates a little higher in some respects than