78 
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE 
Rear Adm. 
C.F.Hillyar, 
C.B. 
25 July 
1871. 
ports of arrival in the Persian Gulf and Arabia? 
— The force was so small at my disposal that I 
stationed the ships where they were most likely 
to stop the passage of the dhows. 
1140. Where were they stationed? — One 
vessel was oif Socotra, and another one along the 
coast of Arabia. 
1141. The other three being near Zanzibar? 
— Two ivere in dock at Bombay, so that I had 
only three disposable vessels during the principal 
time of the slave trade, which is during March, 
April, and May. 
1142. Have you any recollection of how many 
captures of dhows you effected?—It might easily 
be seen by my letters in the Blue Book of 1867 ; 
speaking from recollection, I should say we 
captured about 1,200 slaves in the twelvemonth. 
114.3. Had you very much difficulty in dis 
criminating between dhows that were legally 
permitted to convey slaves for the home use of 
Zanzibar and its dependencies, and those which 
were bound to Arabia, and which you were en 
titled to capture ?—The difficulty of course aris 
ing from our not being entitled to capture vessels 
employed on the coast within the limits within 
which the slave trade was allowed to be carried 
on. Captain Bedingfield wrote a very strong 
letter on the subject, and so did the senior officer 
at Zanzibar. 
1144. During the part of the year when that 
trade was allowed it became extremely difficult 
for naval officers to suppress the illegal trade ?— 
Yes. 
1145. Those limits extended from Kilwa to 
Damoo ?—Yes. 
1146. During your command within those 
waters, dhows may have nominally cleared at the 
custom house of Zanzibar for those ports, which 
were really intending to proceed on a longer 
voyage ? —No, I do not think they could have 
proceeded on a longer voyage without laying in 
a stock of water or slave fittings on a more ex 
tensive scale. 
1147. They would touch at the Port of Lamoo 
as the previous witness has said, and they would 
then proceed on?—Yes; they could not have 
proceeded on their voyage without touching at 
Lamoo or some other port. 
1148. Vessels going to Lamoo and intending 
apparently, according to the custom-house 
clearance, to land the slaves there, intended 
really to lay in provisions at Lamoo and evade 
your squadron and proceed on a longer voyage ? 
—Their great object was to evade the squadron; 
they are up to every dodge you can think of. 
1149. Do you think that many vessels did 
evade the squadron in that way ?—I should say 
for every one captured seven or eight escaped ; 
I should say more, perhaps. 
1150. I suppose, with your experience of the 
West Coast of Africa, you feel that the export 
of slaves there could hardly have been stopped 
by our squadron if it had not been for the treaties 
with Brazil and the operations on the coast of 
Cuba at the same time ?—Certainly not without 
the treaty with the Brazils. 
1151. Therefore, would it not seem to you 
that to enter into treaties with Persia and with 
Muscat would be the course to pursue to stop the 
slave trade, rather than the imperfect operations 
now carried on on the coast of Zanzibar?—No, I 
think the treaties which have been generally 
entered into have had very little effect in stopping 
the slave trade. I think the slave trade with 
the Brazils has been mainly stopped by the vok^ 
OÍ the country, the people disapproving of th^ 
importation of slaves ; of course the difficultly" 
attending tlie passage of the slaves and the ship 
ping the slaves on the West Coast had soiR^' 
thing to do with it. The death blow to the slaV^’ 
trade on the West Coast of Africa was the cap 
ture and retention of Lagos. ! 
1152. Looking to that, do you think that th^j 
occupation of Zanzibar, or some other arrangé] ! 
ment that would give us the control there, woul*^^! 
be the proper mode to stop the slave trade on th^| 
East Coast ?—I have no doubt that the occupé' 
tion of Zanzibar, or the cession of Zanzibar 
the British Government, would very material!.' 
tend to suppress the slave trade on the Ea=‘ 
Coast. I think it is the focus of the slave trat!*-1 
on the East Coast much the same as Lagos aVíi' j 
on the West Coast. 
1153. You do not anticipate at present th^^ : 
any operations on our part will stop the slaV^ ; 
trade so long as it is the interest of the Sultai’ : 
of Zanzibar to continue it ?—As long as th*^ | 
Sultan of Zanzibar derives his main revenii^ 1 
from the slave trade, I think he will encourag*- ’ 
it, either openly or under the rose. 
1154. With reference to the number of ship 
you would think it necessary to employ, if yo'* 
were sent there for the speeial purpose of stop' 
ping the slave trade on the coast of Arabia aO'^ 
on the East Coast of Africa, will you indicate h] 
the Committee what number of ships you wouk‘ 
think necessary for that purpose, and the class 0! 
ship ?—I should say a dozen ships of the cla?“' 
that are at present on the South East Coas^ j 
which have been highly reported on as efficiei^^ 
vessels ; the same description of vessels that at' j 
at present employed. i 
1155. You think 12 would be enough ?—Ye^' | 
1156. Both for the coast of Africa and th^i 
coast of Arabia ?—Yes, those vessels should j 
supplied with good boats, and should be special!.' ' 
fitted out for the suppression of the slave trade- 
1157. Chairman.] With steam launches?-^ 
Steam launches are a most valuable auxiliary- : 
1158. Sir J. Hay.^ Have you any suggestion* 
to make to the Committee with reference to oP 
future policy in carrying out the desire of tlb' 
country to suppress the slave trade there ?--^| 
have every reason to believe from what I ha''’ 
heard, since I gave up the command of tM 
squadron in the East Indies, that the slave trad'’ 
has been on the decrease, and that it is not ne^j 
so active at Zanzibar as it was in 1867, and 186^ 
when certainly the exportation of slaves coul^ 
not have been less than 20,000 annually. 
1159. Do you attribute that decrease to legi^^' 
mate commerce, or to the operations of tb^ 
squadron ?—I should say to both, the squadr'^^' 
has been very active ; there has been a mo'^ 
efficient force employed, and the vessels ha''’ 
been of a superior description. 
1160. Chairman.'] You spoke as if the receipt' 
from slaves were the main revenue of the Sultai'" 
we have had evidence to show that it is not abo'' 
a sixth part of his whole revenue ?—I am spea^ 
ing of what it was, four years makes a gi'^f 
difference ; there has been a rapid increase 
trade, generally, in Zanzibar ; I was alluding 
my impression of what was the state of thio0' 
four or five years ago, when I understood it 
his principal source of revenue. 
1161. Sir R. Anstruther.] Evidence was gi''^^| 
by the last witness as to the misconduct of 
)y