82 
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE 
Capta n 1222. All of them ?—All of them. 
P. Colomb, 1223. What did you do with the slaves?— 
R.N, The slaves were landed at Aden. 
1224. In your own ship ?—In iny own ship. 
2,5 July 1225. Had you to proceed to Aden on each 
1871. occasion and leave your cruising ground for the 
purpose of landing the slaves? — No; I kept 
them on board till my cruising ground was no 
longer tenable, owing to the setting in of the 
monsoon. 
1226. How many crews of captured slavers 
had you on board at once ?—Not more than two 
crews, consisting of about 10 each, but five car 
goes of slaves. 
1227. Consisting altogether of many persons? 
—In three of them there was one slave in each, 
in the other two there were 60 and 113, that 
would be 176 slaves. 
1228. Would it have been possible for you to 
have continued your active exertions, if }ou had 
been obliged to save the dhows? — Certainly 
not ; if I had been obliged to save the dhows, I 
should simply have had to put a stop to my 
operations; I could not possibly have taken 
either of those dhows to the ¡^ort of adjudication, I 
must have let her go. 
1229. You think that any proposal to prevent 
the naval officers, engaged in this service, from 
destroying the captured dhows, would make it 
impossible for them to continue the service with 
any great advantage?—As regards dhows, where 
there was no question about their being slavers, 
by reason of their being full, you would, in any 
case, destroy them. But where you have to act 
on less direct evidence, and are for this reason 
called on not to destroy the vessel, but to convey 
her bodily to the port of adjudication, the 
practical result is that such vessel would be 
always let go. 
1230. The distances to the ports of adjudica 
tion are too great ?—Yes. 
1231. The expenditure of fuel in towing her 
would make it quite impossible to take her to one 
of those ports?—Yes, if the dhow herself would 
stand the towing which she generally would not. 
1232. Do you apprehend that difficulty will 
arise in carrying on the operations of the squadron 
from dhows being allowed to go free, which have 
a few slaves on board ?—If the Arabs understand 
that vessels with two or three slaves on board are 
allowed to go free, they will simply give up 
carrying full cargoes of slaves, and every lawful 
trader will carry five or six as part of her cargo. 
1233. Full dhows on being pursued would not 
hesitate to put to death a number of slaves in 
order to avoid capture ?—I should think not. 
1234. Mr. Fowleri^ By throwing them into the 
sea?—It would depend on whether they had a 
valuable cargo besides their slaves; they certainly 
would sacrifice the slaves to save a valuable cargo, 
either by throwing them into the sea, or by knock 
ing them on the head. 
1235. Mr. Kinnnird.~\ They think nothing of 
knocking them on the head ?—Nothing. 
1236. Sir R. Anstruther.^ In what condition 
were those 60 slaves which you captured ?— 
As to the 60 some of them were in very good 
condition, but many of them were horribly 
emaciated, and in a terrible state ; they had 
been 23 days at sea; the 113 which were in a 
dhow which I captured soon afterwards were all 
in a very excellent condition, they were as plump 
and as good humoured as possible ; they had been 
only 14 days at sea from Zanzibar. 
1237. How were they stowed ?—Everybody 
in a dhow is stowed like cattle ; there is no dif 
ference between the Arab master and the slaves ; 
the Arab gentlemen and their wives and families 
going in dhows from Arabia to Zanzibar, have 
the same accommodation as the slaves have in 
coming up from Zanzibar. 
1238. Are not the slaves bound on board ?— 
N ever. 
1239. Sir J. Hay.'] Are not they ironed or 
chained?—1 never saw the slightest sign of force, 
and T never observed that there was the slightest 
likelihood of force being necessary. 
1240. Sir R. ¿\nstruther.] In the case of the 
Arab and his family coming down to Zanzibar, 
there is not the same crowding that there is in 
the case of the slaves being carried from Zanzi' 
bar ?—No, still the difference w ould hardly strike 
one. 
1241. Mr. CTum-Eu ing.] M hat is the ton' 
nage of the dhows?—They average about 80 
tons ; some run to a much larger size, and a great 
many are smaller, but 1 suppose the average 
would be about 80 tons. 
1242. How^ are they armed ?—With muskets 
and fowling pieces, and spears. 
1243. Mr. Kinnaird] Where are they built ? 
—The great mass of them are built at Soor, a 
town near Bas el Hadd, in Arabia 
1244. Chairman.] Have you ever found any 
difficulty in distinguishing between domestic 
slaves and slaves for export ?—I found none on 
the coast of Arabia. J was sometimes two of 
three days over the examination of the crew' o? 
the dhows ; but I found when I took time over 
it, I could always get at the truth. 
1245. You carefully examined those on board 
before you proceeded to destroy the dhow ?-" 
Always. 
1246. With that examination, you found 
perfectly easy to distinguish betw een legal traffic 
and illegal traffic ?—Yes, quite easy. 
1247. You spoke of placing your fleet on the 
Arabian coast ; w'ould not it be very desirable, if 
possible, to save these poor creatures the 40 days 
voyage ?—Yes, I think it would. 
1248. Have you reason to suppose that there 
is a great loss of life between Zanzibar and the 
Arabian coast?—Nothing that has come under 
my own notice leads me to suppose so, but I can 
easily understand that it might be so. 
1249. Of course, all the evidence of deaths on 
the passage would be removed from any dho^ 
that you might capture ?—Yes. 
1250. Might not a good deal be done in watch' 
ing the ports of departure ?—Yes ; I suppose h 
could. 
1251. If there were a sufficiently large fleet to 
w atch them ?—I should think it might ; but yon 
might yourself form quite as good an opinion upon 
that point as I could. 
1252. You spoke of the want of better inter 
preters ; would not it be very desirable to have 
a trained body of interpreters for the use of each 
captain ?—Most desirable. 
1253. Would there be any difficulty in pro- 
vimng such interpreters at some small expense ^ 
—None whatever, I should think. 
1254. You would then have persons upon whonr 
you could depend ?—Yes. 
1255. Mr. Shaw Lefevre.] You said that i^ 
three of the vessels you captured, there were 
only three slaves?—One in each; those were 
very small vessels. 
1256. Were