82
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE
Capta n 1222. All of them ?—All of them.
P. Colomb, 1223. What did you do with the slaves?—
R.N, The slaves were landed at Aden.
1224. In your own ship ?—In iny own ship.
2,5 July 1225. Had you to proceed to Aden on each
1871. occasion and leave your cruising ground for the
purpose of landing the slaves? — No; I kept
them on board till my cruising ground was no
longer tenable, owing to the setting in of the
monsoon.
1226. How many crews of captured slavers
had you on board at once ?—Not more than two
crews, consisting of about 10 each, but five cargoes
of slaves.
1227. Consisting altogether of many persons?
—In three of them there was one slave in each,
in the other two there were 60 and 113, that
would be 176 slaves.
1228. Would it have been possible for you to
have continued your active exertions, if }ou had
been obliged to save the dhows? — Certainly
not ; if I had been obliged to save the dhows, I
should simply have had to put a stop to my
operations; I could not possibly have taken
either of those dhows to the ¡^ort of adjudication, I
must have let her go.
1229. You think that any proposal to prevent
the naval officers, engaged in this service, from
destroying the captured dhows, would make it
impossible for them to continue the service with
any great advantage?—As regards dhows, where
there was no question about their being slavers,
by reason of their being full, you would, in any
case, destroy them. But where you have to act
on less direct evidence, and are for this reason
called on not to destroy the vessel, but to convey
her bodily to the port of adjudication, the
practical result is that such vessel would be
always let go.
1230. The distances to the ports of adjudication
are too great ?—Yes.
1231. The expenditure of fuel in towing her
would make it quite impossible to take her to one
of those ports?—Yes, if the dhow herself would
stand the towing which she generally would not.
1232. Do you apprehend that difficulty will
arise in carrying on the operations of the squadron
from dhows being allowed to go free, which have
a few slaves on board ?—If the Arabs understand
that vessels with two or three slaves on board are
allowed to go free, they will simply give up
carrying full cargoes of slaves, and every lawful
trader will carry five or six as part of her cargo.
1233. Full dhows on being pursued would not
hesitate to put to death a number of slaves in
order to avoid capture ?—I should think not.
1234. Mr. Fowleri^ By throwing them into the
sea?—It would depend on whether they had a
valuable cargo besides their slaves; they certainly
would sacrifice the slaves to save a valuable cargo,
either by throwing them into the sea, or by knocking
them on the head.
1235. Mr. Kinnnird.~\ They think nothing of
knocking them on the head ?—Nothing.
1236. Sir R. Anstruther.^ In what condition
were those 60 slaves which you captured ?—
As to the 60 some of them were in very good
condition, but many of them were horribly
emaciated, and in a terrible state ; they had
been 23 days at sea; the 113 which were in a
dhow which I captured soon afterwards were all
in a very excellent condition, they were as plump
and as good humoured as possible ; they had been
only 14 days at sea from Zanzibar.
1237. How were they stowed ?—Everybody
in a dhow is stowed like cattle ; there is no difference
between the Arab master and the slaves ;
the Arab gentlemen and their wives and families
going in dhows from Arabia to Zanzibar, have
the same accommodation as the slaves have in
coming up from Zanzibar.
1238. Are not the slaves bound on board ?—
N ever.
1239. Sir J. Hay.'] Are not they ironed or
chained?—1 never saw the slightest sign of force,
and T never observed that there was the slightest
likelihood of force being necessary.
1240. Sir R. ¿\nstruther.] In the case of the
Arab and his family coming down to Zanzibar,
there is not the same crowding that there is in
the case of the slaves being carried from Zanzi'
bar ?—No, still the difference w ould hardly strike
one.
1241. Mr. CTum-Eu ing.] M hat is the ton'
nage of the dhows?—They average about 80
tons ; some run to a much larger size, and a great
many are smaller, but 1 suppose the average
would be about 80 tons.
1242. How^ are they armed ?—With muskets
and fowling pieces, and spears.
1243. Mr. Kinnaird] Where are they built ?
—The great mass of them are built at Soor, a
town near Bas el Hadd, in Arabia
1244. Chairman.] Have you ever found any
difficulty in distinguishing between domestic
slaves and slaves for export ?—I found none on
the coast of Arabia. J was sometimes two of
three days over the examination of the crew' o?
the dhows ; but I found when I took time over
it, I could always get at the truth.
1245. You carefully examined those on board
before you proceeded to destroy the dhow ?-"
Always.
1246. With that examination, you found
perfectly easy to distinguish betw een legal traffic
and illegal traffic ?—Yes, quite easy.
1247. You spoke of placing your fleet on the
Arabian coast ; w'ould not it be very desirable, if
possible, to save these poor creatures the 40 days
voyage ?—Yes, I think it would.
1248. Have you reason to suppose that there
is a great loss of life between Zanzibar and the
Arabian coast?—Nothing that has come under
my own notice leads me to suppose so, but I can
easily understand that it might be so.
1249. Of course, all the evidence of deaths on
the passage would be removed from any dho^
that you might capture ?—Yes.
1250. Might not a good deal be done in watch'
ing the ports of departure ?—Yes ; I suppose h
could.
1251. If there were a sufficiently large fleet to
w atch them ?—I should think it might ; but yon
might yourself form quite as good an opinion upon
that point as I could.
1252. You spoke of the want of better interpreters
; would not it be very desirable to have
a trained body of interpreters for the use of each
captain ?—Most desirable.
1253. Would there be any difficulty in provimng
such interpreters at some small expense ^
—None whatever, I should think.
1254. You would then have persons upon whonr
you could depend ?—Yes.
1255. Mr. Shaw Lefevre.] You said that i^
three of the vessels you captured, there were
only three slaves?—One in each; those were
very small vessels.
1256. Were
