6
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE
Hon.
C. Vivian.
10 July
1871.
from ihc. Bombay Government the other clay a
bill for nearly 16,000 which exteiidecl over five
years, for the maintenance of slaves at Aden, so
that, taking’ the average, it costs us about 3,000 /.
a year. In the case of those who are sent to the
Mauritius, I believe, they cost us nothing ; the
planters give a premium which covers the whole
expense of maintaining them.
73. Mr. Kinnair(V\ You have heard no complaint
of their treatment in the Mauritius ?—No ;
on the contrary, I believe the negroes arc
happy there.
74. The Mauritius is a very excellent outlet
for these liberated slaves ?—I have no doubt they
are happy there, but I still think that our
taking them to our own colonies lays us open
to the charge that we are putting down the slave
trade for our own purposes.
75. What did the Committee of which you
were a member recommend should be done with
the liberated slaves ?—That they should be landed
at Zanzibar itself, under due precautions, where
a depot of liberated slaves should be established,
so as to substitute gradually free labour for slave
labour : that we should form a colony there
of free labour to compete with slave labour.
76. 3ir. AcrtTíôíívn/.] Would not they be liable
to be carried olf if they were taken to Zanzibar ?
■—Of course they wmuld, unless under very strong
precautions.
77. Mr. J\\nnairdP\ The great objection to it
would be, that unless the Sultan of Zanzibar behaved
better than we could expect him to behave,
in all probability they would be re-captured?—
Yes, the Sultan could not do it himself; we should
be obliged to help him.
78. Mr. Cruni-Ewbnj.''\ The northern Arabs
would be too strong for him ?—Yes : it was only
the other day that the northern Arabs w-ere found
engaged in a plot to kidnap his own slaves, and
take them away to the north.
79. John Hay.\ Do you think if the export
was practically stopped, those men would still
find their way down to Zanzibar?—My opinion is
that you ought to seal up both ends ; you ought to
seal up the coast, and you ought to prevent those
men coming down ; they have no right to come
down; they are clearly breaking the treaty. We^
have treaties with every Power up in the north,
and we ought to insist that those Arab slave
traders should not be allowed to come down.
80. Mr. Kennuii:ay.'\ If the risk of capture were
very much increased, so that the trade became no
longer profitable, they would not come down,
would they ?—As long as there is the demand for
slaves that there is in the north, you will always
find that they will run the risk.
81. Mr. Crum-Ewing.'] How would you prevent
the Arabs coming down ?—The only way to
do it would be to appeal to the chiefs, and say,
“You have broken your treaty ; these northern
Arabs arc coming do’wn in great quantities every
year, and we must insist upon no person coming
in future who is not furnished with a pass from
you, the chief, to show’ that he is an honest and
legal trader.” Some arrangement of that kind
might be made.
82. Mr. Kinnaird.] What is done with the
children who are liberated ?—There are schools at
Seychelles, and there is the Nassick school at
Bombay ; the children, I fancy, are very well cared
for. Bishop Tozer has a school at Zanzibar.
83. Is that doing w ell ?—Yes^ and there is a
French mission school.
84. Have the Church Missionary Society
made an offer to take care of the children ?—
Yes ; I think they wanted to establish a school for
their reception at Seychelles ; they seem to me to
be unwilling to go to Zanzibar.
@5. You say there is considerable insecurity at
Zanzibar?—Yes; there would not be with proper
precaution ; it is all a question of expense.
86. Mr. Crum-Ewing.] A very small British
force at Zanzibar would be sufficient to prevent
the liberated slaves being carried away, would it
not ?—Yes, I think one vessel and a steam launch
kept there would be sufficient.
87. Mr. Kinnaird.] Have you had an offer to
receive children at schools in ‘ the Mauritius ?—I
am not awTire of it. I fancy w e must have landed
a good many children there,
88. By whom is the cost of the transmission of
the liberated negroes to our colonies paid ? A
premium is paid by the planters w ho take them,
and I believe that covers all the expenses.
89. If the I rench offered to take them into
their colonies, do you not think we ought to facilitate
their taking them ?—I think that might be
done ; in fact, we proposed it in our report as a
tentative measure.
90. If w e offered them to other countries who
undertook to take of them, it could not with the
same justice be said that we w ere onlv servinof our
own purposes in putting down the slave trade ?
No ; we consider that a negro once taken by our
cruisers is a free man, and that he has the right to
dispose of himself as he chooses. I do not suppose,
however, that their tastes are always considered.
91. Chairman.] IVhat is the administrative
staff at Zanzibar, and what is its cost?—There
is a political agent and consul at Zanzibar, and a
vice consul and a clerk. The political agent is
an officer of the Government of India, who receives
ex officio a commission as consul, the
salary of both offices being paid by the Government
of India ; he is also Judge of the Admiraltv
Court there, and has an enormous amount of
duty to perform.
92. _ MTiat office does Dr. Kirk hold?—He is
the vice consul, and he is now acting as consul
in Ml. Churchill s absence. The total expenses
are about 2,/ 66 /. ; our share, if we paid half
of it, which we do not, would be about 1,400 1. ;
we do not pay a shilling.
93. Are the duties of the agent purely Indian
or Imperial ?—I should think by far the greater
part of his duties were in connection with the slave
trade, which is a matter of Imperial interest.
94. The Indian interests which he is there to
protect are the interests of British Indian subjects,
residents there ?—There are a great many
difficult political questions in reference to Muscat
and the Persian Gulf ; the connection which
existed in former days between Muscat, the Persian
Gulf, and Zanzibar is still kept up, and our
policy in relation to all that region in connection
with India is a very difficult one.
95. Is the Indian Government interested in
suppressing the slave trade ?—If they did not
think that it was a matter of Imperial interest to
suppress it, I do not think they would set themselves
to work to suppress it.
96. Mr. Kinnaird.] They are carrying out
faithfully and energetically the policy of England?
They propose to ’work with us as energetically
as possible.
97. And they have done so?—Yes; but naturally
