ON SLAVE trade (EAST COAST OF AFRICA).
rally they object to pay the whole expense themselves.
98. Chairman.'] Are British Indians in Zanzibar
allowed to hold or deal in slaves?—There
have been different orders about that; most of
British Indians in Zanzibar are not natives
^ British India, but natives of protected States.
Many of the important men in Zanzibar are
Datives of Kutch, which is an Indian State under
British protection, and the Rao of Kutch has by
proclamation made over to us the protection of
his subjects abroad, for us to deal with them in
|he same way as if they were British subjects ;
but I believe in Kutch itself domestic slavery
IS recognised. However, when our Committee
Diet last year, we determined that on no considelation
would we allow any Indians under British
protection to hold slaves in Zanzibar, and it is
Dne of the provisions of the proposed treaty that,
niter a certain date to be fixed by the Government
oi India, all slaves held by Kutchees are to be
leleased, and, in the meantime, they are to be
lorbidden to acquire any fresh ones ; they have
been allowed to hold slaves.
99. Do you think the Sultan of Zanzibar
could be compelled or induced to prohibit the
transport of slaves by sea altogether ?—I think
he might gradually ; I do not think he could do
it at once ; I do not see how he could do without
some sort of labour in Zanzibar.
100. Lord F, CavendisliC\ What is the size of
■^nzibar ?—It is about 25 miles in length, I
thi^ ; the number of slaves required in Zanzibar,
in Dr. Kirk’s opinion, is about 1,700.
101. How would you suggest that the Sultan
iDight be induced to put an end to the export of
slaves ?—I think you would have to give him a
jDOney compensation, to make up for the loss of
his revenue.
102. Sir R. Anstruther.^\ He derives about a
ourth of his whole revenue from the slave tax,
^ oes he not ?—Yes ; we calculated that he derived
^bout 20,000 A a year from his tax upon slaves,
®c that we could not expect him to give that up
'vithout getting some compensation for it.
03. Mr. Kinnaird.'] Those are not all slaves
^^DÍfic in which is recognised by the treaty ?
•iNo; and though, in answer to a previous quesput
to me by the Chairman, whether the
ultan ot Zanzibar had ever violated the treaty,
answered that he had carried out the treaty, I
bave always thought that indirectly he must have
violated it, because he must know that this large
of slaves cannot be required for Zanzibar;
and he accepts a tax for a larger number of slaves
1 be required for the legal traffic.
04. Was not there an idea entertained by the
ommittee, or by some Members of it, that if we
^fbeved him from what he was obliged to pay to
c imaum of Muscat he might be induced to
n ^"3^ tfcaty to discontinue the slave trade
^^^Dinions ?—Yes; that would be about
^ that is what we suggested.
®Dggested that, anticipating that if
nf T if the slave tiade was supnrvf
trade would spring up which would
Y Dny outlay of that sort?—
es, but I think, to inaugurate that new trade,
7 i would have to go to other expenses. For
anee, you would have to establish steam comramiication
with Zanzibar; at present the com-1
with Zanzibar is extremely irregular.
U)b. J here have been very liberal offers from
^^^^Dipanies to run to Zanzibar, have there
not ?—There have been offers, but they all wanted
a subsidy, and to that proposal the Government
has turned a deaf ear.
107. Your opinion is, that one of the most
useful ways of putting down the slave traffic
would be by encouraging and subsidising for a
time steam communication?—No doubt; nothing
did so much good on the west coast, in the way
of checking the slave trade, as the establishment
of steam communication and opening up trade.
Lagos, which is now a place of considerable trade,
was formerly the very hotbed of the slave trade.
108. It now returns a very considerable revenue
?—Yes.
109. Chairman.'] What effect in your opinion
would the abolition of the slave trade ha^ e upon
the prosperity of Zanzibar ?—If you did it suddenly,
I think it would very likely provoke a
revolution ; if you managed it gradually, as the
Committee proposed, by establishing a depot of
slaves, either at Zanzibar, or on the coast, under
proper precaution, and hiring them out to different
employers under proper precautions for their
safety and good treatment, I do not think any
harm would result, on the contrary I think the
resources of Zanzibar would be opened up, and
that there might soon be a flourishing trade.
110. ^Tho would be the people who would join
in a revolution ?—The Arabs.
111. Would they be strong enough to bring
about a revolution?—The Sultan is a weak
sovereign, and the Arabs do almost anythinothey
please. We had some despatches to-day
from Zanzibar, in which it was stated that the
Arabs had sent a message to the captain of the
“ Wolverine ” to say that one of Her Majesty’s
vessels had gone on shore and that 20 men had
been drowned, and that she steamed off to the
rescue : it turned out that it was a mere trick of
the slave traders to get her out of the way.
112. MTiat precautions would you suggest for
the protection of the freed slaves ?—In the first
place every slave ought to be registered at the
British Consulate, and should be under his protection.
You must have a ship and steam launch
there constantly till the scheme began to work,
and the Sultan should publicly notify his intention
of punishing most severely any attempt to
molest or kidnap a freed man. Then if you
managed to shut out the northern Arabs as well,
I do not think there would be much danger of
the liberated slaves being kidnapped.
113. T ou said that the liberated slaves were
badly treated at Aden ?—I hardly meant badly
treated, but there is no emifloyment for them
there ; they are virtually kept in prison there till
they are sent off to Bombay.
1)4. Mr. Crum-Eivmg.] When they go the
colonies they are apprenticed for a certain number
of years with a planter ?—Yes; who has to
give security for his treatment of the slaves.
115. Their position is the same as that of the
coolie labourers ?—Yes.
116. Mr. Kinnaird.] M by are they sent to
Aden ?—Those taken in the north are obliged to
be taken to Aden ; it would be difficult to bring
them to Seychelles or Mauritius ; they are kept
at Aden till notification is received from Bombay
that labour is required.
117. What is done with them at Bombay?—
I do not know what happens to them when they
get to Bombay ; they are not slaves.
118. Chairman.] What steps have been taken
to carry out the proposals in the Report of the
A4 SHve
Hon.
C. Vivian.
10 July
1871.'
