ON  SLAVE  TRADE  (EAST  COAST  OF  AFRICA).

23

slave  trade  ?—I  think  the  Arabs  do  not  understand ­
  forbearance  at  all  ;  they  put  it  down  to
inipotency  ;  they  think  you  are  not  in  a  position
fo  insist  upon  anything,  and  they  misunderstand
motive  ;  in  iny  opinion,  the  best  plan  would
have  been  to  have  adopted  strong  measures
towards  the  Sultan,  and  to  have  forced  him  to  a
certain  extent.
300.  What  sort  of  strong  measures  do  you
î’efer  to  ?—One  would  be  to  curtail  his  income,
yhich  we  can  very  well  do.  Our  British  subjects ­
  have  been  in  the  habit  for  a  long  course  of
years,  of  paying  an  export  duty  of  5  per  cent,  on
produce  from  the  coast,  coming  to  Zanzibar.  The
Sultan  has  a  perfect  right  of  levying  octroi  duty
CR  the  coast,  and  to  facilitate  matters  ;  as  the
CRstom-house  officer  is  an  Indian,  he  insists  upon
^he  Indians,  who  are  the  people  who  carry  on
l-his  trade,  paying  him  at  Zanzibar  the  5  per
cent.,  instead  of  getting  it  paid  inland.  If
the  Hindoos  were  told  that  they  would  -no
longer  he  obliged  to  pay  this,  I  do  not  think
the  Sultan  would  be  able  to  raise  the  money,
^Rd  it  is  a  considerable  sum  ;  something  like
36,000  dollars.  I  think  by  our  supporting
the  Hindoos  in  refusing  to  pay  that,  we  should
bring  the  Sultan  to  his  bearings  immediately  ;  he
would  see  we  could  do  him  a  great  deal  of  harm,
and  he  would,  in  order  that  we  should  not  do
him  that  harm,  come  to  terms  with  regard  to  the
slave  trade.

appears
that  we
the  imamount

Then,

301.  Have  you  any  information  as  to  the
amouRt  of  trade  at  Zanzibar,  and  the  probability
^1  increase  in  it  ?—I  have  looked  into  the  returns
sent  by  Dr.  Kirk,  from  which  it  appears  that
^10,000  dollars  is  paid  by  Jairam  Sewji  as  the
farmer  of  the  revenue,  and  it  further
b’om  the  table  of  imports  at  Zanzibar,
have  2,055,954  dollars  as  representing
ports  ;  5  per  cent,  on  that,  which  is  the
levied,  would  come  to  100,000  dollars
CR  the  other  side,  we  have  the  exportations  ;  the
fötal  amount  is  1,527,800  dollars,  but  out  of  this
you  have  to  take  100,000  dollars  for  copal  which
PRys  a  special  duty,  2,400  dollars  for  hippopota-^^Rs
  teeth,  663,600  dollars  for  ivory,  and  also
‘b,Ooo  dollars  for  slaves,  that  amount  representing ­
  the  value  of  the  slaves.  Altogether  the
^ductions  which  would  have  to  be  made  from
fhe  amount  I  have  given,  namely,  1,527,800,
^euld  reduce  it  to  792,900  dollars,  on  which
^  per  cent,  is  paid,  making  36,780  dollars,
•hhis,  added  to  the  amount  received  from  the
copal,  which  is  20  per  cent.,  would  make  20,000
dollars  more  ;  add  to  this  the  amount  received
rom  ivory,  which  is  about  12  dollars  per  frasilah,
^  Would  make  an  addition  of  132,700  dollars,
altogether  amounting  to  289,000  dollars  in-?
  Cud  of  310,000.  Evidently,  from  this  calcuation,
  Jairam  Se’wji,  who  is  the  farmer  of
Re  customs,  has  not  put  down  the  amount  at  its
proper  value  ;  he  has  reduced  it  considerably  ;
e  must  make  a  profit,  no  doubt,  out  of  the  busi-Ress,
  and  if  you  put  it  down  at  400,000  dollars,  it
Would  show  that  the  importations  and  exportalons
  of  Zanzibar  are  at  least  one-third  more
îRan  they  have  been  represented.
.  your  idea  as  to  the  increase  of
rallie  in  the  event  of  the  abolition  of  the  slave
®  f  think  it  would  increase  considerably
Ri  the  course  of  time,  but  it  would  depend  on  the
auRer  in  which  the  abolition  was  carried  out.
g  ^'°}\Rffempted  to  suppress  the  slave  traffic  by
sudden  stroke,  the  immediate  effect  would
tl*116.

be  to  decrease  the  trade  of  Zanzibar,  but  if  it
were  done  gradually  I  do  not  think  it  would
decrease  the  trade  much,  and  in  the  course  of
time  it  would  increase  it  considerably..
303.  There  is  a  certain  slave  trade  recognised
as  legal,  viz.,  the  slaves  wanted  for  the  service  of
Zanzibar  proper?—For  Zanzibar  and  the  coast.
304.  Are  there  1,700  required  for  the  purposes ­
  of  Zanzibar  ?—In  my  opinion,  that  amount
is  too  small  ;  I  think  that  it  is  more  than  that  ;  I
would  say  3,000  or  4,000  ;  when  I  was  there,
between  17,000  and  18,000  were  imported  in  the
year.
305.  Whatever  the  number  may  be  that  is
required  for  service  in  Zanzibar,  it  is  only  the
traffic  in  slaves  required  for  that  purpose  that
our  treaties  eountenance  ?—Our  treaties  do  not
go  into  those  details  ;  they  merely  say  we  will
not  interfere  in  the  transport  of  slaves  from  one
end  of  the  Sultan’s  dominions  to  the  other,  from
Kiliva  to  Lamoo;  but  what  we  protest  against
and  forbid  in  the  treaty  is  the  carrying  of  slaves
from  the  coast  of  Africa  to  the  coast  of  Arabia.
306.  If  you  carry  them  from  the  coast  of
Africa  to  the  coast  of  Arabia  via  Zanzibar,  is  not
that  as  clearly  a  breach  of  the  treaty  as  anything
else?—Yes,  undoubtedly.
307.  Is  not  it  obvious,  if  there  is  only  a  certain ­
  small  number  of  slaves  required  annually
for  the  service  of  Zanzibar,  that  the  large  proportion ­
  of  those  that  are  proved  to  be  shipped
from  Africa  to  Zanzibar  are  so  shipj)ed  for
the  illegal  traffic?—Yes,  only  the  Sultan  and
the  people  of  Zanzibar  would  never  acknowledge
that  they  require  a  limited  number  of  slaves  at
Zanzibar;  they  are  all  interested  in  the  slave
trade  ;  I  think  the  Sultan  indirectly  is  interested
in  it  too.  For  instance,  his  relations  with  Muscat ­
  induce  him  to  favour  the  northern  Arabs  ;
not  only  does  he  favour  them  by  allowing  them
in  an  underhand  manner  to  take  away  the  slaves,
but  he  sends  them  large  presents  amounting  to
something  like  40,000  dollars  a  year.
308.  You  say  that  you  think  the  requirements
of  Zanzibar  would  be  from  3,000  to  4,000  slaves  ?
—Yes.
309.  Large  numbers  of  slaves  are  sent  to  the
north  ?—Large  numbers  are  sent  to  the  north
of  the  Sultan’s  dominions  during  the  season  when
the  carrying  of  slaves  is  allowed,  and  they  are
there  kept  in  readiness  by  the  inhabitants  to  be
shipped  off  to  the  north,  and  as  soon  as  the  season
comes  round,  the  northern  Arabs  transport  them
to  Arabia.
310.  Are  the  hardships  to  which  they  are  subjected ­
  very  great  ?—They  are  very  considerable  ;
I  have  witnessed  them  myself  ;  the  slaves  are
starved  while  they  are  on  board.  I  was  in
the  “  Daphne”  when  there  were  about  325
liberated  slaves  taken,  and  11  of  them  died  before
we  reached  Zanzibar;  that  was  only  eight  or  10
days’  voyage  ;  they  died  from  shear  starvation  ;
the  captain  and  the  crew  of  the  Daphne  ”  took
the  greatest  care  of  them,  and  tried  to  bring
them  round  ;  the  doctor  used  to  visit  them  every
day,  but  he  could  do  nothing,  they  had  become
so  much  reduced.
311.  Viscount  Enfield.']  Were  they  in  that
condition  before  they  were  shipped?—No,  I  do
not  think  so  ;  they  had  not  been  shipped  very
long  ;  they  had  been  taken  on  the  coast  between ­
  the  northern  limit  of  the  Sultan  of  Zanzibar’s ­
  dominions  and  Brava  on  the  Equator,  beyond ­
  the  dominions  of  the  Sultan  of  Zanzibar,  and
C  4  that

Mr.
Churchill.

13  July
1871.