50
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE
Maj. Gen. Sultan might be induced to give up the slave
C. P. Righy. trade if the 40,000 dollars which he annually
pays as subsidy to the Imaum of Muscat, were re-20
July mitted, I am convinced that he'would never fall
^ into that arrangement. When the mission was over
here that was a point which the secretary urged
upon me more than any other ; he said the Sultan
of Zanzibar would rather give up the country and
go to live at Mecca for the rest of his days. I
think any negotiation upon that basis would be
sure to fail ; the Sultan would look upon it as a
great humiliation, and it would be so considered
by all the Arabs ; they would say, there is the
Sultan of Zanzibar become a paid servant of the
Feringhee, and the chances are that he would
lose his life.
631. Would you abolish the trade and give
him no compensation?—I -would not give him
any compensation ; I do not see on what ground
he can be supposed to be entitled to compensation
for giving up this horrible slave trade, which
they have carried on for years in defiance of
treaties, and in defiance of all laws.
632. You do not agree with the witnesses who
have stated that it would cause a revolution in
Zanzibar if the slave trade Avere put doAvn ?—
No ; I think the Arabs are now quite prepared
for its suppression ; it has been dinned into their
ears for so many years, and they have seen slaves
emancipated in so many other places, that I
think they are quite prepared to see our Government
setting to work to put a stop to it.
633. Sir R. Anstruther.~\ Do you agree Avith
the statement in the paragraph at page 4 of the
Foreign Office Report, that “the commerce of
Zanzibar might be ruined if it Avere at once
deprived of the slave labour on AAhich it has
hitherto relied, before proper provision is made
for supplying free labour in its stead?”—I do
not think it Avould interfere Avith the commerce
of Zanzibar in the slightest degree ; I think the
Arabs would find their slaves more valuable ;
they Avould take more care of them, and there
would be less mortality amongst them ; and if
the slave trade was prohibited so that free men
could come and work there, there Avould be
abundance of free labour, because, if the slave
trade were abolished, thousands of people from
Madagascar, from the Comoro Islands, and from
India Avould come and reside at Zanzibar ; but
the mere fact of all agricultural labour being
done by slaves, deters those people at present
from coming and engaging themselves in that
work, because they think it degrades them to
Avork side by side Avith slaves.
634. In a preAuous part of the Report reference
is made to the loss of revenue that Avould be incurred
by the abolition of the trade. Would you
propose to abolish the trade AAuthout compensating
the Sultan in anyAvayfor the loss of revenue which
he Avould thereby incur ?—As I have already
stated, I think the loss of revenue would be very
trivial indeed ; his revenue from other sources is
so rapidly increasing that he Avould not feel very
much the loss of that which he at present receives
from slaves.
635. Mr. Kennaway.~\ You expect him to give
up the 20,000 /. Avhich he is supposed to derive
from the slave trade; that is a “ decree of fate”
which a man does not submit to without a struggle
generally ?—I think, at the outside, it cannot be
more than 8,000 1. which he gets from the duty
on slaves. Mr. Churchill, I think, takes the
whole number of slaves landed, including the
slaAys belonging to members of the Sultan’s
family Avhich do not pay any duty, and there are
a great many branches of the Sultan’s family,
the members of Avhich are the chief slave dealers.
636. Do you think that the British Indian subjects
in Zanzibar are in any Avay supporters of the
slaA^e trade?—They were very large supporters
of the slave trade till I put a stop to it by putting
up a notice at the Custom House and on the
gates of the Consulate, that whereas I had discovered
that British subjects Avere holding slaves
in violation of the laAA's, they Avould be alloAved
one month from that date to emancipate them
legally, and, failing to do so, the provisions of
the Act 5 Geo. 4 Avould be applied to them.
At the end of the month many of them did not
emancipate their slaves, and they AA’^ere fined and
imprisoned ; and gradually I forced them all to
emancipate their slaves; but after I left, the
officer Avho succeeded me took a different view of
it, and he held that we had no right to do this
with regard to native Indians Avho belonged to
protected States ; and they have been alToAved,
unfortunately, to become slave holders again.
637. By taking the protection of other states ?
No, merely on the ground that they Avere
not directly British subjects, but only subjects
of British protected states like Kutch.
638. M ou Id they, in claiming to hold slaves,
deprive themselves of the protection of the British
Consulate ?—I do not knoAV on Avhat terms it was
done, but I suppose those Avho declared themselves
subjects of Kutch or Kattywar Avere
allowed to throAV off their allegiance.
639. Mr. Shaw Lefevre.~\ They then became
entitled to hold slaves ?—Yes; I put a stop to
their holding slaves, on this ground, that those
men in their OAvn country Avould not be alloAved
to hold slaves, for they Avould be prohibited by
the British as the superior poAver, and it Avas not
right that the subjects of those very states o-oing
to Zanzibar should be permitted to hold sla-^es.
640. Now, if a man wishes to hold slaves, all
he has to do is to change his nationality?—Yes.
641. Sir J. HayJ\ The Naturalisation Act
Avas not in force Avhen you were there ?—No,
they Avere prohibited from holding slaves ; I
understand that the natives of India are going to
take advantage of the Naturalisation Act, and to
throAV off their allegiance to the British Government
on purpose to be able to trade in slaA^es.
642. Mr. Churchill states that they haA'O
already done so ?—I am sorry to hear it ; it AviH
open a new^ field for slavery; a great proportion
of the plantations on the Island of Zanzibar noAf
belong to British subjects ; the Arabs are very
dissipated and reckless, and they have morto-ao-ed
most of their plantations to those wealthy BanianS
and Indian Mahommedans.
643. Who, having been British subjects, havß
noAv become Zanzibar subjects ?—They Averc
obliged, as long as they were British subjects, to
cultivate their plantations by free labour ; noA^
they Avill buy slaves and cultivate them with
slave labour again.
644. You have no doubt that Mr. ChurchilD
evidence upon that point is correct?—No; Dt*
Kirk has Avritten to the same effect; that is aß
additional argument Aiffiy we should stop tb^
whole trade summarily.
645. Mr. Kennaivay.\ Do you know anything
of the slave trade which is carried on betivecß
the interior of Africa and Egypt, by Zanzibar ?
That has sprung up chiefly since the abolition
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