5b

MINUTES  OF  EVIDENCE  TAKEN  BEFORE  SELECT  COMMITTEE

gir  healthiness  of  Zanzibar,  do  you  know  Dr.  Steer,
G.  Heath,  who  lived  in  Zanzibar  for  four  years  ?—I  made
his  acquaintance  ;  he  is  one  of  Bishop  Tozer’s
eo  July  party.
1871.  746,  Would  he,  do  you  think,  be  able  to  give
valuable  information  to  the  Committee  with  reference ­
  to  the  healthiness  of  the  climate  ?—Any
Englishman  who  has  lived  there  four  years  would
be  able  to  give  you  information  on  that  point.
747.  Viscount  Evßeld.']  As  to  the  Report  of
the  Slave  Trade  Committee  which  sat  at  the
Foreign  Office,  do  you  agree  with  the  recommendations ­
  of  that  Committee  as  to  the  amount
of  imval  force  required  on  the  east  coast?—No.
748.  Generally,  you  do  not  agree  with  the
Report  as  to  the  number  and  the  distribution  of
the  naval  force?—No  ;  I  think  the  number  proposed ­
  is  a  great  deal  too  small.  In  my  official
report  on  that  paper  I  suggested  10  ships  besides
the  flag  ship.  I  suggested  also  that  the  vessels
which  were  stationed  there  should,  as  far  as  possible, ­
  be  provided  with  steam  launches,  because
though  the  launches  are  unfit  for  distant  cruising,
they  are  very  valuable  to  cruise  in  the  offing,  the
ship  being  anchored  near  at  hand.  The  vessels
being  small  would  require  special  fittings  ;  their
big  guns  would  be  removed,  and  possibly  the
position  of  the  funnels  would  have  to  be  altered
also.
749.  Putting  that  aside,  on  the  whole  you  are
not  inclined  to  disagree  with  the  majority  of  the
recommendations  of  the  Committee  ?—No  ;  there
is  one  small  point  as  to  the  jurisdiction  of  the
courts  in  which  I  think  the  Committee  have  made
a  mistake  as  to  localities.  They  recommend  that
dhows  captured  near  Zanzibar  should  be  judged
at  Zanzibar,  and  that  dhows  taken  near  Muscat
should  be  judged,  I  think,  at  Aden.  Now,  the
object  of  the  Committee,  I  presume,  was  to  insure
a  fair  hearing,  and  this  would  not  be  attained  by
the  Committee’s  proposal.  A  Zanzibar  dhow
captured  off  Mokullah,  in  the  Gulf  of  Aden,
would  be  judged  at  Aden.  Similarly,  a  Muscat
dhow  captured  in  the  neighbourhood  of  Zanzibar
would,  under  the  Committee’s  recommendation,
be  judged  at  Zanzibar.  In  neither  case  would
the  Committee’s  object,  of  having  the  adjudication
at  the  place  where  the  owner  lived,  be  attained.
750.  What  is  the  time  in  which  you  think  the
slave  trade  could  be  virtually  abolished  in  that
district,  supposing  the  recommendations  of  the

Committee  were  carried  out,  and  there  were  no
financial  obstacles  in  the  way  ?—I  doubt  whether
you  will  ever  stop  the  trade  completely,  even  by
adopting  the  Committee’s  recommendations.
751.  Yet  you  approve  of  the  recommendations
of  the  Committee  as  far  as  they  go  ?—I  approve
of  them  as  far  as  they  go.
752.  You  do  not  think  they  would  be  effectual
in  abolishing  the  traffic  altogether  ?—I  have  said
in  the  letter  to  which  I  have  referred,  in  which
I  make  observations  on  the  Committee’s  Report,
that  so  long  as  the  existing  domestic  habits  in
slave-receiving  countries  remain  unchanged,  so
long  will  there  be  more  or  less  of  slave  trade.
Those  habits  can  only  be  changed  by  completely
stopping  the  supply  of  slaves  for  a  very  long
period,  probably  for  a  whole  generation,  and  any
system  wffiich  stops  short  of  that  will  fail  of  complete ­
  success.  The  trade  will  be  scotched  but
not  killed,  and  will  revive  whenever  the  pressure
is  taken  off  I  recommend  therefore,  that  at  least
ten  vessels  besides  the  flagship  should  be  appropriated ­
  to  this  service,  and  since  the  tactics  of  the
dealers  vary  with  the  information  they  receive
as  to  the  position  of  the  cruisers,  I  would  leave
the  officer  commanding  entirely  unfettered  in  his
disposal  of  them.”  I  think  the  Committee’s  recommendations ­
  would  partially  check  the  trade  ;
but,  as  I  have  said  before,  you  must  have  a  complete ­
  stoppage  for  a  long  period  to  produce  a  good
result.
753.  Mr.  J.  Talbot.']  With  regard  to  guilty
dhows  escaping,  do  you  think  you  always  know  a
guilty  dhow  when  you  board  it  ?—I  think  the
vigilance  of  the  officers  can  be  completely  trusted
in  that  respect.
754.  Are  the  signs  unmistakeable  ?—There  are
signs  untnistakeable  when  the  dhow  is  carrying  a
large  number  of  slaves  ;  sometimes  domestic
slaves  might  be  on  board  without  your  finding
them  out;  but,  under  existing  regulations,  having
domestic  slaves  on  board  does  not  constitute  a
guilty  dhow.
755.  Slaves  for  sale  cannot  be  concealed  without ­
  your  knowing  it?—In  small  numbers  they
might  be.  This  regulation  permitting  the  carrying ­
  of  domestic  slaves  will  make  it  still  more
difficult  to  ascertain  with  certainty  the  character
of  a  dhow  which  is  carrying  10  or  12  or  14  slaves
for  sale.