62
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE
Mr. H. C.
Rothery.
24 July
1871.
prices for them ; the result was, that the same
vessel was captured over and over again. I believe
there are instances of the same vessel
having been captured five and six times over.
I should here state that the proceeds of the
vessels were given to the captors, as well as the
bounties upon the slaves captured in them. It
was accordingly decided that the slave vessels
should be broken up, but the naval officers then
complained that this was depriving them of a
great portion of their reward, and accordingly,
as a compensation to them, it was ordered that,
where a vessel was broken up and sold in separate
pieces, a bounty of 1 /. 10 5. additional should be
granted to the captors to make up to them for the
loss sustained by the destruction of the vessels.
That rule has been applied to the case of dhows
captured on the East Coast of Africa, which are
of very little value.
851. You think 1 Z. 10 s. a ton a very high
compensation to pay in the case of those vessels ?
—Certainly, in those cases.
852. Then the Admiralty regulations were, in
fact, to put a stop to those two illegal practices,
that is to say, to stop the condemnation of vessels
having domestic slaves on board, and, if possible,
to put a stop to the improper destruction of
vessels previous to condemnation ?—Yes.
853. Where there is no real ground for supposing
that they are slavers?—Yes; I may
mention another instance which led to the issue
of those instructions ; one of our officers captured
a vessel, and brought the slaves (the slaves being
domestic slaves) to Zanzibar ; Dr. Kirk or Mr.
Churchill said that the vessel was undoubtedly
a legitimate trader, but that officer, notwithstanding
that the vessel was restored, carried off
the slaves to the Seychelles.
854. Our Government has been compelled to
pay heavy damages in respect of that and in
respect of another vessel also improperly captured
and destroyed ?—Yes.
855. In your opinion, is it exceedingly important
that every protection should be given to
honest trade there ?—I think it should be encouraged
in every possible way.
856. And great care should be exercised with
regard to the condemnation of slavers?—Yes, I
think so.
857. Mr. Gilpinr\ You mentioned just now
the case of the “ Petrel,” and the capture she
made, and which, I think, was taken to the
Cape of Good Hope ; do you recollect whether
that prize was condemned?—Yes, it was condemned.
858. Then the capture itself was not illegal,
was it ?—Yes, it was in my opinion illegal, but the
dhow was condemned on an ex parte statement.
859. Who was the judge ?—The judge of the
Vice Admiralty Court at the Cape of Good Hope ;
a prima facie case was laid before the Court but
on the evidence of the captors only.
860. By whom was the treaty made by which
the Imaum of Muscat receives 8,000 /. or 9,000 /.
a year ; I presume by the Indian Government ?
—I believe so.
861. Mr. ShawLefevreJ] Do you think now that
there is a Prize Court both at Aden and Zanzibar
there would be any difficulty in requiring
that all vessels should be sent for condemnation
to a Prize Court?—I am very strongly of opinion
that vessels ought not to be destroyed except
under very great emergencies, and that, in the
event of their not being able to be taken to Zan*
zibar, Aden, or Muscat, that they should be left
in some port belonging to the Sultan of Zanzibar,
under the charge of his officials, before being
destroyed.
862. Mr. Kinnaird.l The port of Aden is not
convenient for a Prize Court, is it ; has not it
been found highly inconvenient ?—Highly inconvenient
in some cases, but not in all. Some
vessels have been captured by Socotra, and then
it is very convenient, if the wind is blowing in a
particular direction, to run with them to Aden.
863. You stated, in answer to Mr. Lefevre,
that you looked to the establishment of commerce
entirely to put a stop to the slave trade ; you did
not, I presume, intend to imply that the naval
force was of no use ?—Most certainly not,
864. You meant in conjunction with the naval
force ?—Yes.
865. You quite admit the great value of the
squadron?—Yes, but for the ultimate extinction
of the slave trade I look entirely to legal commerce.
866. Chairman.'\ The existence of the slave
trade very much prevents the extension of legitimate
commerce ?—Yes ; the accounts by Dr.
Livingstone are that the whole coast for a considerable
distance inland is almost utterly depopulated,
and that the area is increasing year
by year.
867. Sir .7. Hay.'] I think I understood you
to say, that except under very exceptional cases,
where it was absolutely necessary, captured
dhows should be brought to one of the Prize
courts ?—I think it very desirable that they
should be.
868. Looking to the strength of the monsoon,
and to the considerable distance that they have
to be towed, and the time it would occupy, is if
your opinion that in general cases it is possible :
to tow the captured dhows into port against the i
monsoon ?—Possibly not ; but in such a case I
should say that the dhow should be left in one of
the ports in charge of the Sultan’s officers.
869. Then supposing that course were taken, !
and the captured dhow were to be taken to one [
of the ports, how would you propose that the :
crew should be dealt with during their detention
?—I should leave the dhow in charge of the
authorities at the particular port, and I should
take the captain and two or three of the principal
persons on board the dhow to the port of adjudication
to obtain the condemnation. Then when
the vessel was condemned, orders should be
sent to have the vessel destroyed.
870. ChairmanJ\ What would you do with the
slaves?—Just exactly as they are now disposed |
of ; they are generally taken on board Het '
Majesty’s ships to the port of adjudication.
871. Sir J. Hay.'] Would not there be a difficulty
in carrying a considerable number of slaves
on board one of Her Majesty’s ships?—Yes; I
know there is a difficulty about that, but they
do it now ; they do not leave the slaves behind
them, but carry them to the port of adjudication,
often very much to their inconvenience.
872. Supposing a captured dhow with a certain
proportion of the crew were left in chargé
of the Sultan of Zanzibar’s officers at a distant
port, would not it be something like two seasons
before the official condemnation could be oh- ;
tiined?-^
