62 
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE 
Mr. H. C. 
Rothery. 
24 July 
1871. 
prices for them ; the result was, that the same 
vessel was captured over and over again. I be 
lieve there are instances of the same vessel 
having been captured five and six times over. 
I should here state that the proceeds of the 
vessels were given to the captors, as well as the 
bounties upon the slaves captured in them. It 
was accordingly decided that the slave vessels 
should be broken up, but the naval officers then 
complained that this was depriving them of a 
great portion of their reward, and accordingly, 
as a compensation to them, it was ordered that, 
where a vessel was broken up and sold in separate 
pieces, a bounty of 1 /. 10 5. additional should be 
granted to the captors to make up to them for the 
loss sustained by the destruction of the vessels. 
That rule has been applied to the case of dhows 
captured on the East Coast of Africa, which are 
of very little value. 
851. You think 1 Z. 10 s. a ton a very high 
compensation to pay in the case of those vessels ? 
—Certainly, in those cases. 
852. Then the Admiralty regulations were, in 
fact, to put a stop to those two illegal practices, 
that is to say, to stop the condemnation of vessels 
having domestic slaves on board, and, if possible, 
to put a stop to the improper destruction of 
vessels previous to condemnation ?—Yes. 
853. Where there is no real ground for sup 
posing that they are slavers?—Yes; I may 
mention another instance which led to the issue 
of those instructions ; one of our officers captured 
a vessel, and brought the slaves (the slaves being 
domestic slaves) to Zanzibar ; Dr. Kirk or Mr. 
Churchill said that the vessel was undoubtedly 
a legitimate trader, but that officer, notwith 
standing that the vessel was restored, carried off 
the slaves to the Seychelles. 
854. Our Government has been compelled to 
pay heavy damages in respect of that and in 
respect of another vessel also improperly captured 
and destroyed ?—Yes. 
855. In your opinion, is it exceedingly im 
portant that every protection should be given to 
honest trade there ?—I think it should be en 
couraged in every possible way. 
856. And great care should be exercised with 
regard to the condemnation of slavers?—Yes, I 
think so. 
857. Mr. Gilpinr\ You mentioned just now 
the case of the “ Petrel,” and the capture she 
made, and which, I think, was taken to the 
Cape of Good Hope ; do you recollect whether 
that prize was condemned?—Yes, it was con 
demned. 
858. Then the capture itself was not illegal, 
was it ?—Yes, it was in my opinion illegal, but the 
dhow was condemned on an ex parte statement. 
859. Who was the judge ?—The judge of the 
Vice Admiralty Court at the Cape of Good Hope ; 
a prima facie case was laid before the Court but 
on the evidence of the captors only. 
860. By whom was the treaty made by which 
the Imaum of Muscat receives 8,000 /. or 9,000 /. 
a year ; I presume by the Indian Government ? 
—I believe so. 
861. Mr. ShawLefevreJ] Do you think now that 
there is a Prize Court both at Aden and Zanzi 
bar there would be any difficulty in requiring 
that all vessels should be sent for condemnation 
to a Prize Court?—I am very strongly of opinion 
that vessels ought not to be destroyed except 
under very great emergencies, and that, in the 
event of their not being able to be taken to Zan* 
zibar, Aden, or Muscat, that they should be left 
in some port belonging to the Sultan of Zanzibar, 
under the charge of his officials, before being 
destroyed. 
862. Mr. Kinnaird.l The port of Aden is not 
convenient for a Prize Court, is it ; has not it 
been found highly inconvenient ?—Highly incon 
venient in some cases, but not in all. Some 
vessels have been captured by Socotra, and then 
it is very convenient, if the wind is blowing in a 
particular direction, to run with them to Aden. 
863. You stated, in answer to Mr. Lefevre, 
that you looked to the establishment of commerce 
entirely to put a stop to the slave trade ; you did 
not, I presume, intend to imply that the naval 
force was of no use ?—Most certainly not, 
864. You meant in conjunction with the naval 
force ?—Yes. 
865. You quite admit the great value of the 
squadron?—Yes, but for the ultimate extinction 
of the slave trade I look entirely to legal com 
merce. 
866. Chairman.'\ The existence of the slave 
trade very much prevents the extension of legiti 
mate commerce ?—Yes ; the accounts by Dr. 
Livingstone are that the whole coast for a con 
siderable distance inland is almost utterly de 
populated, and that the area is increasing year 
by year. 
867. Sir .7. Hay.'] I think I understood you 
to say, that except under very exceptional cases, 
where it was absolutely necessary, captured 
dhows should be brought to one of the Prize 
courts ?—I think it very desirable that they 
should be. 
868. Looking to the strength of the monsoon, 
and to the considerable distance that they have 
to be towed, and the time it would occupy, is if 
your opinion that in general cases it is possible : 
to tow the captured dhows into port against the i 
monsoon ?—Possibly not ; but in such a case I 
should say that the dhow should be left in one of 
the ports in charge of the Sultan’s officers. 
869. Then supposing that course were taken, ! 
and the captured dhow were to be taken to one [ 
of the ports, how would you propose that the : 
crew should be dealt with during their deten 
tion ?—I should leave the dhow in charge of the 
authorities at the particular port, and I should 
take the captain and two or three of the principal 
persons on board the dhow to the port of adjudi 
cation to obtain the condemnation. Then when 
the vessel was condemned, orders should be 
sent to have the vessel destroyed. 
870. ChairmanJ\ What would you do with the 
slaves?—Just exactly as they are now disposed | 
of ; they are generally taken on board Het ' 
Majesty’s ships to the port of adjudication. 
871. Sir J. Hay.'] Would not there be a diffi 
culty in carrying a considerable number of slaves 
on board one of Her Majesty’s ships?—Yes; I 
know there is a difficulty about that, but they 
do it now ; they do not leave the slaves behind 
them, but carry them to the port of adjudication, 
often very much to their inconvenience. 
872. Supposing a captured dhow with a cer 
tain proportion of the crew were left in chargé 
of the Sultan of Zanzibar’s officers at a distant 
port, would not it be something like two seasons 
before the official condemnation could be oh- ; 
tiined?-^