MINUTES  OF  EVIDENCE  TAKEN  BEFORE  SELECT  COMMITTEE

IÎCV.
H(et7'e,
LLD.
25  July
1C71.*

tility  of  tliat  country  between  Lake  Nyassa  and
the  sea  ?—I  have  never  traversed  the  country.
998.  With  regard  to  the  state  of  things  in
Zanzibar  itself,  which  is  the  part  of  tlie  country
you  are  most  acquainted  with,  what  is  the  condition ­
  of  the  emancipated  slaves  who  are  living  at
Zanzibar  ?—They  are  exactly  in  the  position  of
free  men  anywhere;  they  get  their  living  by
trading  and  work.
999.  Is  there  any  attempt  made  to  re-enslavc
them  ?—]^ot  generally  ;  they  run  some  risk  if
they  are  imprudent  and  incautious  ;  sometimes
a  man  will  sell  himself,  but,  as  a  rule,  they  get
their  living  in  one  way  or  other,  and  no  one
molests  them.
1000.  Is  their  condition  very  much  better  as
fieed  men  than  it  was  as  slaves?—A.s  to  eating
and  drinking  I  should  think  not  much  better.
1001.  It  is  only  in  having  their  liberty  that
they  are  better  off?—Only  iu  having  their  liberty.
The  greatest  evil  of  the  state  of  slavery  is  the
moral  degradation.
1002.  With  regard  to  the  children,  you  took
some  interest  in  the  condition  of  the  slaves  in
Zanzioar,  I  believe  ?—Yes,  we  had  some  children
handed  over  to  us  who  had  been  taken  out  of  a
slave  dhow.  The  education  of  those  children
was  our  first  work  in  Zanzibar,  seven  or  eight
years  ago.  We  began  with  five  and  have  now
nearly  ninety.  The  first  five  all  came  from  the
borders  of  Lake  iSlyassa,  and  they  were  very  intelligent, ­
  Our  difficulty  at  starting  was  in
regard  to  the  language,  and  it  took  some  time
to  get  over  that.  We  began  with  the  ordinary
instruction  which  is  given  in  a  national  school  in
England,  and  we  found  them  take  it  with  very
great  rapidity  ;  they  were  much  more  acute  than
our  English  children  would  be  in  a  rural
school,  and  their  moral  character  was  excellent.
Since  I  have  come  back  I  hear  that  they  have
gone  on  acquiring  more  and  more  knowledge,
and  the  best  possible  accounts  are  given  of  them  ;
some  of  them  are  now  20  years  of  age.
1003.  They  have  grown  up  into  intelligent
men  and  women,  able  to  take  care  of  themselves
and  able  to  earn  an  honest  living?—Yes.  Wc
have  had  one  or  two  cases  which  turned  out
badly,  but,  as  a  rule,  we  have  been  very  satisfied
with  the  results.
1004.  ^  Is  there  any  demoralisation  amongst  the
young  female  slaves  ?—You  may  say  that  in  Zanzibar ­
  morality  is  unknown,  and  that,  for  the  most
part,  the  slaves  arc  not  married  at  all.
1005.  With  regard  to  those  whom  you  educated, ­
  some  were  girls  and  some  were  boys  ?—
Some  were  girls  and  some  were  boys.
1006.  With  regard  to  the  girls,  do  you  think
3  on  instilled  into  their  minds  a  proper  feeling  in
that  respect  ?—I  think  so.  I  think  they  have  a
strong  moral  feeling.  1  do  not  think  there  is  in
them  any  lack  of  original  morality,  but,  I  think,
owing  to  the  existence  of  slavery  in  Zanzibar,  the
general  state  of  morality  among  the  natives  is  extremely ­
  low,  so  that  if  you  only  look  outside  your
own  house  you  find  every  kind  of  evil  going  on.
1007.  You  knew  the  late  Sultan  of  Zanzibar  ?
—Yes;  and  the  present  Sultan  of  Zanzibar  also.
1008.  The  late  Sultan  was  really  anxious  to
put  down  the  slave  trade,  was  he  not  ?—Yo,  I
should  think  not.  I  should  think  the  present
Sultan  much  more  trustworthy  than  the  last  was.
Seyyid  Majid  was  an  effete  voluptuary  himself,  a
man  entirely  given  up  to  his  jileasures  and  worn

out  by  them,  and  he  was  always  willing  to  pa)  ;
money  for  tlie  sake  of  putting  an  end  to  aH)  '
trouble.
1009.  Toil  think  that  the  present  Sultan,
properly  approached,  would  be  willing  to  cooperate ­
  with  us  in  suppressing  the  slave  trade  ?'^
I  think  with  regard  to  the  foreign  slave  trad^
probably  he  would.
1010.  Is  it,  or  not,  the  case  that  a  great  pad
of  his  revenue  is  derived  from  the  tax  on  slaves^
—The  custom^  duty  on  slaves  forms  a  materia^
part  of  the  customs  duties.  j
1011.  Would  you  propose  to  compensate  hii^
for  the  loss  of  tliat  duty  ?—lie  does  not  osteO'
sibly  receive  any  duty  upon  slaves  going
Arabia,  but  only  upon  the  slaves  carried  froa’
place  to  place  within  his  own  dominions.
1012.  On  the  slaves  landed  in  Zanzibar?—Oa
the  slaves  landed  in  Zanzibar  and  on  those  eX'
ported  from  Zanzibar,  exported  in  a  dhow  suf'
posed  to  be  going  to  one  of  his  own  ports.
1013.  So  that  he  does  not  openly  encouragé
the  slave  trade  ?—^  ot  in  the  least  ;  he  professe*
to  put  it  down.  Every  now  and  then  he  burns  a
dhow,  and  imprisons  the  master  of  the  dhoi'>
and  takes  away  all  the  slaves.  Seyyid  Majid  usc^
to  divide  the  slaves  so  taken  amongst  his  friend?'
1014.  Had  you  any  opportunity  of  forming
opinion  as  to  the  energy  of  our  naval  force  wff^'  '
regard  to  the  suppression  of  the  slave  trade  whe^
you  were  in  Zanzibar  ?—Yes  ;  there  are  exeef'
tiens,  but,  generally  speaking,  I  think  the  nav)'
did  all  they  could,  but  I  do  not  think  they  wef^
at  all  able  to  do  what  they  might  have  done?
I  think  large  vessels  are  wholly  unfitted  for  tl><^
Avork  of  chasing  those  dhows  ;  then  Avhen  a  young
officer  is  sent  out  w  ith  some  seamen  in  a  boah
nobody  ever  knows  exactly  what  is  done,  and
many  tales  are  told  among  the  natives  as  to  w  ind
is  done,  Avhich  are  simply  incredible,  but  there  n
little  doubt  that  Avhen  a  boat’s  crew-  goes  aw'a)
they  follow-  their  ow  n  devices  l  ery  much  indeed?
and,  no  doubt,  they  harrass  legitimate  commercé
very  much.
1015.  Chat  is,  they  take  possession  of  vessel*
that  are  in  legitimate  trade  ?—Yes  ;  they  stof?
and  search,  and  detain,  and  sometimes  burnl’
them.
1016.  Under  the  supposition  that  they  ai'ß
slave  dhoAVs  ?—Yes.
1017.  Could  you  suggest  any  means  of  inn  |
proving  that  state  of  things  for  the  future  ?—Mí  j
impression  is  that  small  vessels  of  light  dran  |
should  be  employed,  which  could  follow-  tin’
dhows  into  the  shalloAvs,  and  they  ou^ht  to
very  fast  sailers,  because  uoav  the  dhows
alivays  outsail  our  boats  ;  if  you  could  folio"'
them  into  the  shallows  with  small  vessels  I  ha"^
no  doubt  a  great  deal  of  the  trade  might
stopped.  ®
1018.  Generally,  do  you  look  forward  w'id'  |
hope  to  the  suppression  of  the  slave  trade  in  it'  .
Avorst  form  on  the  East  Coast  of  Africa  I  thinl^
it  may  be  done  if  the  English  Government  b
minded  to  do  it.
1019.  If  the  English  Government  is  minde^
think  no  material  opposition  Avoid"
be  offered  by  the  natii  e  princes  ?—No.
'I  What  w  ould  you  suggest  th"^
the  English  GoA  erninent  should  do,  supposing  the)
had  a  inind  to  do  it  ?—It  is  a  question  for  a  nav"'
man  what  means  should  be  taken  ;  I  thiab?
probably,  the  best  w  ay  Avoidd  be  to  Avatch  tb^  :
Arabi^tt