31
ON SLAVE TRADE (EAST COAST OF AFRICA).
that were engaged in the slave trade, that came
openly for the purpose of carrying away slaves ;
out that if they came for the purposes of trade,
he should leave them alone, because we had
treaties with those people, and it would be our
duty to protect them in their legitimate trade.
414. Would there be sufficient justification on
the ground of alleged violation of the treaty for
ooercing the Sultan to surrender his right to
transport slaves from the coast ? — That is a
o^atter for the Government to consider ; when
late Sultan was about to die I called Seyed
^urgash to my house ; he was supposed to be a
great fanatic, at least he pretended to be so ; and
he did not like the English at all ; he had been
engaged in a revolution against Seyed Majid
before, and General Rigby had taken very strong
Measures against him ; but when he came to me,
^nd was questioned with regard to his politics, and
as to what he intended doing, he promised everything
; he said he knew all about the demands* of
the English Government with respect to the slave
trade, and would do everything we required, and
a^ucli more than Seyed Majid would have done.
1 inquired regarding the debts of his late brother
to Ludda Damjee, who is one of our subjects,
and he said he would take on himself the whole.
After entering into a verbal arrangement, made
^n the presence of Dr. Kirk, he went away, and
the very next day he denied everything, saying
that he never made any arrangement at all. I
think when a man breaks his faith in that way
be should be called to account for it.
415. Has the late or present Sultan, to your
knowledge, ever offered to sell or cede the island
of Zanzibar?—No, never; he on one occasion
said, “ If you go so far as to demand the
total abolition of slavery, and the carrying of
slaves on my coast, you had better take the
island away from me altogether.” But that did
Hot mean that he would either give or sell it.
416. Would a free settlement on the coast
tend to prevent the slave trade, do you think ?—
t think so.
417. Where would you suggest it should be
Established ? — I should think Monfia, to the
®Euth of Zanzibar, between Kilwa and Zan-^^har,
a very good place.
418. What would be the cost of protecting
®}ich a settlement?—It would not be very considerable.
I think it would pay itself in the
Eoui’se of a few years ; you would have to have
^ governor there, I should say ; and 200 or 300
would protect the whole place ; it is a small
island.
, 419. Lord F. CavendishP^ Whom does it
oelong to?—It belongs to the Sultan of Zan-^ffiar.
I do not think he would offer much
difficulty to our securing it.
420. Chairman.~\ Would it be possible to preyERt
the slave hunting in the interior; and, if so,
how ?—Only by a decree from the Sultan ; that
to say, that he should prevent his own subjects
Tom engaging in that trade ; and it is generally
his own subjects who go up country with merchandise
and set the negroes fighting against
Each other for the purpose of obtaining slaves.
421. We have been told that most of the slave
Raders come from Muscat, or from places in the
north with which we have slave treaties ; could
^E not prevent the annual visits of these
northern Arabs to Zanzibar?—We have treaties
^ith them that, so long as they carry on a legiiRiate
trade, we are to protect them in that
0.116.
trade ; therefore when they go down in a proper
way, for the purpose of carrying on a honaJide
trade, I do not think we could or ought to prevent
them ; but, unfortunately, it so happens
that they are almost all more or less engaged in
the slave trade. They take down merchandise
from Muscat, and return with a cargo of slaves.
The Arab authorities on the coast of Arabia,
with whom we have treaties, must necessarily
take cognisance of this illicit trade, and they
should be called upon to punish most severely
those who engage in it.
422. Should we be justified in charging the
Sultan of Muscat, or the chiefs in the Persian
Gulf, with violating their Slave Trade Treaties,
and in insisting upon them stopping their slave
dhows from coming to Zanzibar ?—I do not think
we should be justified in stopping all the dhows;
every dhow is susceptible of being a slave dhow
in the country ; there are not particular dhows
for the purpose.
423. They are not particularly fitted up for
the slave trade?—No; that idea has misled a
good many people. On the West Coast of Africa
there were vessels fitted out purposely for the
slave trade, with slave decks, and everything
else ; but on the East Coast there is no such
thing.
424. Sir J. Hay.'] Then how is it possible for
a slaver to be detected ?—That is the great difficulty
that is encountered by our men-of-war;
when they first go to the East Coast of Africa
they are liable to take almost every dhow for a
slaver.
425. Without a certain amount of water butts
and other fittings, I suppose ?—There are only
two or three sizes of water butts. A small dhow
may have a very large water tank, but that
would not be a criterion of the dhow being a
slaver ; they may require a great deal of water,
and a tank, about a cubic yard, is not a very
considerable size.
426. There are no special fittings, then, by
which a vessel is supposed to be condemned ?—
Most of the vessels that I would condemn would
be those on which slaves were found on board,
but the difficulty is in knowing a domestic slave
from a slave that is for sale. The latter have
particular marks on their heads when they come
from Kilwa ; they are marked like sheep. A
part of the hair is taken off, and if you see 20 or
30 of them marked in the same way, you may
be quite sure that they are for sale.
427. Chairman^ Can you suggest any means
to prevent those northern Arabs from engaging
in the slave trade, while at Zanzibar on professional
or commercial pursuits ?—The only means
would be to have a good strong police force, but
unfortunately the Sultan's troops are not very
well in hand ; when I was there they were
bribed right and left to allow the dhows to go.
428. Do you think that it would be impracticable
to reconvey the slaves to their own homes
in the interior?—It would be very difficult;
many of the villages from which they came have
been destroyed when they have been taken.
Villages are destroyed, and children are kidnapped,
and the old are allowed to die on the
spot, and if the liberated slaves were to return to
their country, they would find nothing but desolation
there.
429. Would the establishment of such a free
depot as the Foreign Office Committee suggested
cost more than the 3,000 Z. a year, which is now
D 4 paid
Mr. H. A
Churchillf
C.B.
17 July
1871.
