32
Minutes of evidence taken before select committee
Mr. ZT. >1» paid for the maintenance of liberated slaves at
Churchill, Aden and Bombay?—No, I think not.
430. Have you any observation to make on
17 July the present system pursued by Her Majesty’s
1871/ cruisers employed in suppressing the slave trade
now ?—TV e made certain recommendations in the
Committee, but very few have been carried
out.
431. Have you any suggestions to oiler for its
amendment beyond those recommendations made
in the Report of the Foreign Office Committee ?
—No, I think not.
432. Mr. Crum-'Eioing.'\ Under whose dominions
are those tribes among whom the slaves are
captured ?—They have chiefs of their own ; they
are under no particular dominion ; some of them
are very important tribes in their way, but others
are small.
433. Chmrman.~\ You have said that the trade
with Zanzibar has been gradually increasing ; is
it true that communication with Zanzibar is very
irregular and uncertain ?—Very much so ; I have
been six or seven months without receiving a
letter from any part of the world. It is only
when our cruisers come in that direction, and
receive orders to touch at the Seychelles, that we
get letters from Europe.
434. Would greater facilities for communication
tend to develope trade in general, and assist
to check the slave trade ? — Considerably ; so
much so, that several houses have taken into
consideration whether they would not sacrifice a
certain amount at the commencement, and put on
a line of steamers ; they have applied to Government
to kiKiw whether they could obtain a subsidy,
but they did not receive a very favourable
answei-, I believe.
435. Do you consider the appointment of vice
consuls along the East Coast a necessary element
in any scheme for the suppression of the slave
trade ?—Yes.
436. At what places would you appoint them?
—One at Kilwa, to see that no slaves were exj)orted
; another at Dar Selam, to have supervision
over the slaves that were sent through
there ; another in the north, at Mombasa, or at
Lamoo (they are close to each other), to see that
the northern Arabs did not come and take the
slaves away.
437. Do you think It probable that if vessels
under the Arab flag were entirely prevented
from carrying on the slave trade, and if Zanzibar
were entirely closed to it, slave traders would
adopt the French flag, or a slave trade spring up
from the coast of Mozambique ?—No ; I think
an understanding might be come to with the
French Government to prevent that; at present,
certainly, the number of dhows navigating
under the French flag is increasing, but I do
not know that such a trade in slaves is carried on
under the French flag. I do not think that any
of our cruisers have ever detected slaves beinocarried
under the French flag. °
438. Have you in any way changed your
opinion as to the expediency of the proposals
suggested by the Foreign Office Committee, of
which you were a member ?—No.
439. You are of the same opinion as when you
signed that Report ?—Quite.
440. Mr. Kennaimy^ Could we, in your
opinion, enforce the proposals of the Foreio-n
Office Committee, that all dhows engaged in the
legitimate traffic of domestic slaves should bear
a distinguishing mark on their hulls ?—I think
the Sultan would have no difficulty in effecting
that.^ We could not enforce anything on hlin^
but if it were proposed, and the Sultan were inclined
to make any such arrangement with us,
he would have no difficulty in carrying it
out. ®
441. With regard to the ships that come down
from the north, would it be practicable to unship
their rudders and only return them when they
could prove they had got a legitimate cargo on
board?—That plan has been adopted at Zanzibar
by the customs ; that is to say, as soon as a dhow
comes in, to prevent her from going away or
changing her ground, they unship the rudder
and take it into the custom house, and she is
totally at the mercy of the custom house officer.
I think the same plan should be adopted everywhere,
and all northern Arabs should be, without
exception, disarmed on their arrival in the
Sultan’s dominions.
442. Sir J. Hay.l With regard to the recommendation
of Admiral Cockburn as to bavina
stationary guard-ship at Zanzibar, do you think
that would be a good plan?—I think the best
jolan would be to have a ship that could cruise,
but I understand he jiroposes a stationary ship
in addition to a cruising ship ; this w ould entail
an additional expense.
443. Have you anything to add to your evidence?—No.
Sir Bartle FRERE, G.C.S.I., K.C.B., called in ; and Examined.
Sir B. Frerc, 444. Chairman.\ I believe you are a Mem-G.C.S.I.,
her oí the Indian Council ?—Yes.
K.c.B, ^ 445. Has your attention been turned to the subject
which the Committee is now investigating,
and in what manner and to what extent ?—
My attention has been a great deal directed to
the subject of the East African slave trade.
Since the year 1838 I have been on terms of
more or less Intimacy with Colonel Hamerton,
General Rigby, and Colonel Playfair, who have
held office on that coast ; and I have been also
intimate with Dr. Livingstone, and I have taken
very great interest in the depots at which liberated
slaves are taken care of in India, and at
Aden.
446. Have you read, and if you have read, how
far do you agree with the previous evidence
given before this Committee ?—I agree very
gentirally with Mr. Vivian In his evidence.
There are a few points in which, I think, additions
might advantageously be made to what he
has stated on the subject. I think he has rather
under-estimated the extent to which the French
flag is made a cover for aiding a modified kind
of slavery, or something which amounts almost
to slavery ; not at all with the consent or connivance
of the French officials, but wherever
those who use it are out of their sight. The
system which is known as the system of engages
IS vmy apt to lapse, when it is not carefully
watched, into something very like a system of
slavery. ^ Then I should like to add a few words
to what is said by Mr. Vivian on the way in which
the slave trade appears to have grown up. I
know
