ON SLAVE TRADE (EAST COAST OF AFRICA).
55
. 719. Is your Rejiort published ?—My letter on
is in the Blue Book for 1871, at page 64. The
i^Gport, as laid before Parliament, is not the same
■^Gport as was submitted to me. The 3rd, 4th,
and 6th paragraphs have been altered in ac-^'^rdance
with my suggestions.
720. Taking it as it stands now, how far do
you agree with the recommendations of the Report
?—As it now stands I agree with the recom-^ondations
of the Report in a general way.
721. Do you think if those wei e carried out, a
^ory material effect might be produced even
^'ilhout the British Government becoming pos-^ossed
of Zanzibar?—The proposals made by
■L'Ord Clarendon for a new treaty, which I have
deferred to before, practically embody the greater
P^i't of the recommendations of the Committee,
^Hcl I agree with them in a general way.
722. And you think they might produce a
^^aterial effect ?—I think so, provided also, that
transport of domestic slaves by sea is for-^^dden.
723. And the squadron increased?—And the
®9Radron increased.
724. I hardly know how to reconcile that with
^ke statement you made before, that you thought
hardly any guilty dhows escaped ?—I quite admit
difficulty ; it is as much present to myself as
you. I know that during the three months of
of the slaving season we boarded 400
dhows, and only captured 11 of them with 958
slaves ; I cannot account for it. It is supposed,
apparently with good reason, that 20,000
^^Q-Ves are exported for sale, and I do not know
dow they go. If any large number of guilty
dhows passed my ships during that season, they
d^^st have gone by an outside route, and with
d^ore ships that route could be watched.
725. Sir J. Æ/y.] Do you think that the slave
^^aders ever send out vessels as decoys to mislead
he squadron ?—No, I think not.
726. Chairman.'] Were you succeeded by
■Admiral Coburn ?—Yes.
1 727. Have you seen the proposals which he
made ? — No, I have seen none of his correshORclence.
, ^28. Do you agree with General Rigby as to
he Uselessness of treaties with Arab chiefs?—I
hardly able to give an opinion upon that
phich would be of any use to the Committee ;
general Rigby has great local experience ; the
.^Gaties must at any rate be of value as justifyjdg
us in taking aggressive measures when the
^eaty has been broken.
729. Lord F. Cavendish.] You said you were for
^^Uie time on the west coast of Africa?—I com-^^uded
a ship for some time on the west coast of
■d^lrica.
Q 730. That fleet was very much larger than any
®et which it has ever been proposed to establish
d the east coast ?—Very much larger.
'^1. Was not it the case that all the efforts of
® fleet on the west coast of Africa were really
g^^tess, and that the trade went on till we were
to station our fleet off Cuba?—No, I think
j ® Suppression of the trade was not due to that.
diuk the eflbrts of the squadron by themselves
çj^dld, perhaps, never have put down the west
j,^^st slave trade, though they had a very strong
tj^^*’®ssive influence, and considerably diminished
ti-^^^Ports ; the ultimate putting down of that
g^de was due, I think, partly to political presand
partly to the growth of humane feelings
_de Spaniards and Brazilians. Public opinion
in those countries eventually stopped the demand
for slaves, and then the supply ceased.
732. Was not it the case that the stationing of
her fleet off Cuba, after the agreement which we
came to with the United States, had a very great
effect?—I was not on that station ; I never knew
that it had.
733. At the same time we obtained possession
of the port of Lagos, did we not?—Yes; I was
there at that time.
734. Had that a great effect?—I think that it
has had a very great effect indeed ; it has been a
great encouragement to legitimate trade, and I
should anticipate the same sort of result from
taking possession of the government of Zanzibar.
735. You think no efforts of our cruisers are
likely to be productive of great success till the
transport of domestic slaves is prohibited ?—That
is my opinion.
736'. What probability is there of the Sultan
agreeing to such a prohibition?—The Sultan has
never, that I know of, objected to it ; but if he
has, his objections have been overruled. It is
the interpretation of the treaties by either our
Foreign Office or our Admiralty, of which I
speak.
737. Do you think the Sultan would consent
to the entire prohibition of all movement of
slaves between the coast and the island of Zanzibar
?—He certainly would not do so willingly.
738. You think pressure might be applied to
him that might oblige him to consent?—I think
you have only got to say what you want and you
will have it done. I think it would be very hard
upon him to make the trade cease immediately.
I think the proposal to make it cease b) degrees
a much wiser one. I think the annual importation
should be limited, and that the number
allowed to be imported should be decreased for
a certain number of years till it was finally
stopped.
739. Sir J. Hay.] Do you contemplate the
application of force to obtain that concession from
the Sultan ?—Moral force, I think, would be quite
enough.
740. Lord F. Cavendish.] Would moral force
also enable us to obtain possession of the Island
of Zanzibar ?—With a certain amount of money ;
I think that amount would probably be less than
what you are now paying in abortive and ineffectual
efforts.
741. Mr. J. Talhot.] As to the number of
slaves exported in the year, did you say that
about 20,000 were exported annually ?—I know
that the custom-house importation returns at
Zanzibar show, generally speaking, an importation
into Zanzibar of 20,000. I know that a
large number are exported from the main land
who do not pass through the custom-house, and
since the wants of Zanzibar itself cannot exceed
3,000 or 4,000 a year for making up the deficiencies
of its population, I assume that there
must be an export of something like 20,000 a
year.
742. The number captured by your cruisers
was about 1,000 a year ?—About 1,000 a year is
the maximum number captured by the cruisers.
743. Nineteen thousand, in round numbers,
escape ?—Nineteen thousand are unaccounted for.
744. You regard that as an unsatisfactory result
of all our national efforts for the suppression of
the slave trade ?—Very unsatisfactory.
745. Passing from that to the question of the
G 4 healthiness
Sir
L. G. Heath,
20 July
1871.
