67 
ON SLAVE TRADE (EAST COAST OF AFRICA). 
Interior, and I would have that distinctly borne 
^n mind ; that is in y own opinion and the opinion 
niany others who have the best means of 
of 
^’^rining a judgment on the matter 
943. That is to say, taking into account the 
n^es lost in warfare ?—Taking into account the 
hves lost in warfare, and in the famine that suc- 
^^Gds, and those that are lost from the disease 
^Idch always accompanies famine there ; I never 
Saw cholera break out, but I have seen a species 
dysentery sweep off whole villages at a 
bine. 
y 944. Brought about by want of proper food?— 
.^Gs, and the want of proper food has originated 
the disturbed state of the country ; drought 
'"'ill very often prevail for a long time in the 
Country, which, of course, aggravates the state 
things very much ; the yassa or Mahganja 
fribe are very timid, and they suffer exceed 
ingly. 
945. Dr. Livingstone mentions one part of the 
Country which at one time he found well culti- 
^^ted, and where a great quantity of cotton was 
gïown, and which on a subsequent visit he found 
^htirely depopulated ?—Yes, that is the country 
am speaking of in which so great a change took 
place. Many of the Doctor’s statements have been 
discredited, but he is not a man to exaggerate in 
nny respect ; I know that contrary opinions about 
country have been stated, and it has been 
bjnted that he has coloured things rather too 
i^Jighly, but when I was there I had opportunities 
Seeing the remains of villages in all directions, 
Pc population of which had been entirely swept 
^Way ; I have seen as many as three villages 
.lining in one morning within two hours, and I 
l^ave seen hundreds of captives carried a,way from 
^hose villages. 
946. The villages are set on fire, and, in the 
^cnfuslon, the men, women, and children are 
^^Ptured?—Yes. 
947. M ithin what time did that change take 
P^ace from its being a flourishing cotton-growing 
^cuutry to its being depopulated ?—In about two 
years. 
j .948. Do you remember in what year Dr. 
bivingstone saw it in its flourishing condition ?— 
fhink the Doctor came home to England and 
^presented the flourishing state of affairs in 1859, 
We found the altered state of things in 1861 ; 
. inhabitants of that district were a very indus- 
^^cus and intelligent race ; they had an immense 
^^antity of iron all through the country ; coal 
was found there, and gold ; and copper 
taken away to the coast in the form of 
'"alachite. 
have been swept away ?—Entirely 
cpt away. I may say that the country was 
^ftierly so thickly populated that you might 
b’aveiled for 70 or 80 miles, and have come 
a village at every two miles ; in many places 
Would have found a village at every half 
L ^ It is thoroughly well watered, and it is 
qJdly necessary in any case to take any precau- 
po^ water. Another proof of the great 
^ Pulation in the hill country is this : that there 
game to be found at all, with the excep- 
y cf a few guinea fowl 
Sir R. AnstrutherS\ The consequence of 
® depopulation is that all this land is lying 
^—The Doctor, in one of his last letters to 
speaks of having to cross a tract of 120 miles 
Q they found not a human being of any kind. 
All this land that I am speaking of is perfectly 
swept of its inhabitants, and I have no hesitation 
in saying that every bit of this damage and misery 
has been caused by the slave trade. 
951. ChairmanP\ Where are the slaves ob 
tained from now ?—The slaves are now brought 
from great distances in the interior. The belt of 
country between the Lakes and the East Coast 
is denuded of its inhabitants, and, therefore, they 
have to be brought from the west side of Lake 
Nyassa ; they are transferred across the lake in 
Arab dhows ; there are settlements of Arabs on 
both sides of the lake, and the Doctor in his travels 
has given very accurate accounts of the slave 
trade crossing the lake. 
952. To what power are those Arabs subject ? 
—They are not subject to any one ; they are 
perfectly lawless; they have no master at all; 
the greater part of the slaves that go to Zanzibar 
now are brought from the vicinity of that lake, 
the great proportion of them from the west side 
of the lake, simply because the rest of the coun 
try is depopulated. 
953. Of course the further the slave dealers 
haA e to go inland for the slaves, the greater the 
waste of life ?— The cheaper they are to buy, and 
the greater the loss of life there is in bringing 
them down to the coast. 
954. You do not know anything as to what is 
going on now, I presume, except from the letters 
of Dr. Livingstone ?—I am in constant corre 
spondence with Dr. Kirk ; and I may state that 
Mr. Young, who went up to search for Dr. 
Livingstone in 1867, went through the greater 
part of the country I am speaking of, as far as 
the middle of Lake Nyassa, and according to his 
account the same state of things was going on at 
that time. I have since heard from more recent 
accounts that it is still going on, and, in fact, it 
must go on as long as slaves are exported from 
the East Coast. 
955. Sir J. Hay.^ Are those slave dealers of 
whom you are speaking Portuguese subjects, or 
Arabs?—Most of them are Portuguese subjects ; 
some of them are Arabs. 
956. Have the Portuguese Government no 
means of restraining them ?—I speak of things 
as they were ; I can only say that the Portuguese 
who were sent out there, were sent out to shift 
for themselves ; the Home Government did not 
wish to hear anything more of them, and the 
slave trade was never interfered with in any way 
except on paper. 
957. Mr. J. Talbot,'I Did you accompany Dr. 
Livingstone on any j)art of his travels ?—Not as 
one of his expedition, I went out with Bishop 
Mackenzie, but I was with Dr. Livingstone, off 
and on, for nearly four years ; I joined him be 
cause we wished to save the lives of a great many 
of those poor meg and children who had been 
liberated by us, and the Doctor and myself were 
working together for that purpose for some time; 
eventually he sent me down to the Cape with 
them, and a great many of them are there at the 
present time. 
958. Chairma7i.'] Have you any suggestion to 
offer to the Committee with the view of suppres 
sing the slave trade on the East Coast of Africa? 
—Having listened with much interest to the 
evidence which has been given here, I should like 
to suggest that which seems to me to be one very 
good plan, and which I think might be adopted. 
The suggestion has been made that vice consuls 
I 2 should 
Rev. 
H. Waller, 
24 July 
1871.