34
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE
Sir B Freie, interfere with our national rights, though we
G.C.S.I., may not think it very wise, viewed by our lights
K.c.B. of political economy. Some of the Sultan’s most
17 July industrious subjects, some of those who are the
main stay of commercial affairs in his dominions,
are men of Indian extraction, who come there
and are subject to poll taxes. 1 have no doubt
it would be a wise measure, if he could afford it,
to remit the whole of a poll tax of that kind ;
but, I think, it should be left to his own sense of
his interest, and unless there is some national
question which enables us to say, “ You shall
not tax our subjects,” we should abstain from
interfering with him.
451. Mr. Churchill said, I think, that inasmuch
as a treaty had been made by which certain
duties ought not to be levied, but had since been
levied sub silentio, there would be in our power
the offering of a quid pro quo for his giving up
the traffic ; was not that his evidence ?—Possibly
that is the explanation. There are some
six or seven preventive measures which, if the
Committee will permit me, I will refer to.
I he first seems to me to be to limit the
transport from the main land to Zanzibar. As
I understand the question, it is reasonable that
we should for a time, at all events, offer no
effectual objection to the Sultan of Zanzibar
having such a number of slaves belonging to
himself or his subjects, as he requires to transport
from the main land to Zanzibar, but that
we should not allow that transit to be made a
cover for slaves who are not really intended for
domestic or agricultural purposes in the island of
Zanzibar, but who pass to the sea, and so away
to the northward ; and it is proposed to limit the
transit to the export from one particular port. I
should think from what I heard from the agents
of the Sultan at different times in Bombay, and
even in this country, that they would be very
willing, if they saw their way clear to what we
were about, to make that transit much more restricted,
and subject to much more stringent
rules than appeared to be contemplated by the
report of the Foreign Office Commission. For
instance, I should think, if it were properly put
before the Sultan, he w ould be very willing to have
the whole legalised transit of slaves between the
mainland and Zanzibar managed by steam-boats,
with regard to the departure of which from the
mainland and their arrival at the island, there
would be much less doubt and discretion than
there would be with regard to sailing vessels,
and that every slave who was so passed should
pass only under a permit which would come under
the view of some authorised functionary of the
English Government.
452. Sir iZ. Anstruther.'] That would diminish
the export of slaves from the main land by about
three-fourths, would it not ?—It would diminish
the export of slaves to a very considerable extent.
There is some difference with regard to the
number required ; some authorities say between
1,700 and 1,800; others, and I think Mr.
Churcliill, who has probably the soundest
opinion, says nearly 3,000 or 4,000 ; but whatever
it may be, I would give an outside limit; I
would not attempt to draw the thing too tight at
once ; if you limit the route by which they
should go, you are pretty certain when you once
get them to Zanzibar that you will have them
more under your own view and your own control.
Then I think you must be prepared when
you are requiring the Sultan to cancel what he
thinks a very valuable right to give him something
in return. I think the means of doing so
are afforded by the very peculiar position into
which he has returned with regard to his relative,
who is reigning at Muscat. The whole of the
arrangements between the two kingdoms have
been fully explained in the evidence which has
been given in the last two days, and it amounts
to this ; that the cost of carrying out in perfect
good faith, as far as we are concerned, an
arrangement which was very solemnly entered
into a very short time ago under the authority,
not only of Her Majesty’s Government in England,
but of the Government in India; I say, that
the cost of carrying that arrangement out is in
round numbers 8,0001. This arrangement affords
the means, first of all, of keeping peace between
Zanzibar and Muscat, and keeping both the
branches of a very important family, a family to
which civilisation and the English Government
in India are under considerable obligations, in a
position of honour, and in a position in which we
should wish to see them placed, and where, if
they understand us and act on their family traditions,
they are quite certain to do very much
what we ask them to do. It does not seem to
me a large sum to pay, if it were divided between
the Exchequers of England and India, for
such very great objects. It is very much less
than we have been in the habit of spending
year by year for the purpose of putting an end
to slavery ; and it would help to put an end to it
in a natural and, it seems to me, a legal, as well
as a very politic mode. It would give us a very
great hold both on Muscat and Zanzibar. But
our agents on the spot must know what the
Government really intends to do, and must act
vigorously as their predecessors have acted-The
English Government has been extremely
well represented hitherto, both at Muscat and
Zanzibar ; and whenever our consuls have
known what we wanted, they have given great
effect, both by argument and influence, to •
what the English Government required. That
is the second point which I would urge, namely,
that, between England and India, we should
arrange for the payment for which Zanzibar is
at the present moment bound to Muscat, and
that we should take that as a stand point ; and,
referring to the benefits which we have conferred :
on both, say, “ Now in return for this you should
do something that we consider desirable, and
also for your benefit.” The third point is, that*
I would place our consuls and the consulat
service there, generally, on a better footing-Both
Muscat and Zanzibar are extremely trying
climates. The position is one Avhich wears out
men very fast ; they are very ill paid, and they
are almost without subordinate assistance ; they
are especially deficient in the means of employ
ing vice-consuls, and persons in that position at
the outports. I have no doubt that if you wei’ß
to deal Avith those gentlemen as the IndiaU
Government has ahvays been in the habit of
dealing Avith great political officers, and giving
due weight to their representations, as to tb^
Avant of an additional outlay of 150 Z. or 200 Z. »
year at particular places, for particular object?,
I say I have no doubt that a little more liberality
in that respect, enabling them to employ, nof
necessarily English agents, but consular agent?,
whether they might be natives of India, or Arab?,
or Egyptians, you Avould find that they Avould
ahvays have the means of knoAving what Ava?
going
