10 
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE 
Hon. 
C. Vivian. 
10 July 
1871. 
does not look upon slavery in the light that we 
do. 
158. You do not think there is any insuperable 
obstacle in putting down the slave trade on the 
East Coast of Africa?—Not if we were really in 
earnest ; of course it is difficult, but by no means 
insuperable, 
159. Mr. Crum-Ewing.'] Have you any in 
formation as to the manner in which the slaves 
are treated after they are sold by the Arabs ?— 
I fancy it depends on whose hands they fall into ; 
in many cases they fall into good hands ; gene 
rally, in Mahomedan countries, the masters treat 
their slaves kindly ; all the cruelty is in bringing 
them from the interior. 
160. Lord F. Cavendish.] If the treaty you 
recommended was pressed on the Sultan of Zan 
zibar, do you imagine that he would be likely to 
accept it?—Yes, if properly and justly pressed 
upon him ; you would have to take into conside 
ration the serious loss of revenue which the 
abolition of the trade would cause to him ; in fact, 
it would require money. 
161. He would not consent to put an end to 
the slave trade within a fixed date without the 
payment of a sum of money down?—He would 
not consent to give up his right to transport 
slaves within the prescribed limits without the 
payment of compensation. 
162. You stated that there is a great loss of 
life when the slave vessels run ashore, in order to 
escape our cruisers ; do you imagine that there 
are many such cases every year ?—I should think, 
taking the whole slave season through, there is 
considerable loss of life, 
163. Are many more ships run ashore than 
captured ?—That 1 cannot tell you. 
164. Are the great bulk of these slaves men 
or women ?—Men, I believe, but you will get 
valuable information upon those points from Mr. 
Rothery. 
165. Have there been any recent negotiations 
with Persia and Turkey on the subject of the 
slave trade ?—When we wrote this Despatch to 
Mr. Churchill on the 16th of June last, desiring 
him to press this treaty upon the Sultan, we at 
the same time wrote to Persia and to Turkey, 
begging them to act up to their engagements 
with us. We have not proposed any new treaty 
with them. 
166. Have you had any answer from Persia 
and Turkey to those communications?—Yes; 
we have had a very satisfactory answer from 
Persia. 
167. What has been the answer from Turkey? 
—Turkey is always ready to do what we ask her 
when we show her the particular point. If we 
point out a particular case, she is always ready to 
take means to punish the offender in the particu 
lar case ; but generally, in Turkey, no doubt 
they wink at the introduction of slaves. 
168. The Imaum of Muscat would have a 
greater power of putting down this trade than 
anybody else, I presume?—Yes. 
169. Has he any pecuniary interest in the 
trade?—Yes; I believe there is a tax levied in 
Muscat on the import of slaves, just as there is a 
tax in Zanzibar on the export of slaves. 
170. Would not negotiations with the Imaum 
of Muscat seem to promise at least as good a 
chance of success as negotiations with the Sultan 
of Zanzibar ?—We have the strongest treaty in 
the world with him, but it is so much waste paper. 
The treaty of 1845 is with the Imaum of Muscat, 
because in those days Muscat and Zanzibar were 
one. 
171. In spite of his evading the treaty, we 
compel the Sultan of Zanzibar to continue to 
pay over 8,000 Z. a year to the Imaum of Muscat? 
—Yes. 
172. Chairman.] Have you heard that a num 
ber of slaves, and not an insignificant number, 
find their way from Zanzibar to Cuba ?—I have 
heard it, but I do not think there is any founda 
tion for such a statement.