ON  SLAVE  TRADE  (EAST  COAST  OF  AFRICA).

83

1256.  Were  they  vessels  engaged  in  trade?—
Yes,  in  legal  trade.
1257.  Could  you  distinguish  in  those  cases
■""hether  the  one  slave  on  board  was  a  domestic
^lave  or  a  slave  for  sale  ?—Yes.
1258.  Would  not  the  presumption  he  in  such
^  case  as  that,  that  the  slave  was  a  domestic
slave?—Yes  ;  the  first  presumption  is  undoubtedly ­
  that  the  slave  is  a  domestic  slave  ;  it  is  only
On  close  examination  that  you  come  to  a  different
Conclusion.
1259.  Were  the  dhows  in  those  cases  carrying
large  cargo  ?  —A  small  cargo.
1260.  What  was  the  kind  of  evidence  tending
to  show  that  they  were  slaves  for  sale  rather
than  domestic  slaves  ?—I  used  generally  to  intimate ­
  to  the  captain  before  the  examination
began,  that  if  one  slave  was  found  to  be  not
a  domestic  slave,  his  vessel  would  be  legally
Condemned,  to  which  he  always  agreed.  I  used
to  have  the  captain  on  board  first,  and  if  from
his  replies,  or  from  different  circumstances,  I
had  any  suspicion,  I  used  to  send  immediately
tor  all  the  rest  of  the  crew,  and  separate  them
from  one  another  at  once,  and  then,  on  examining
them  separately,  I  generally  came  at  the  history
of  the  whole  transaction.  In  the  case  of  two  of
those  single  slaves,  they  had  been  both  stolen  at
Zanzibar^  and  the  masters  of  the  dhows  admitted
the  fact,  and  acknowledged  that  they  were  properly ­
  captured.
1261.  Sir  J.  Buy.l  In  those  cases,  had  there
been  any  other  slaves  killed,  do  you  think,  who
had  been  part  of  the  cargo  before?—I  should
think  not.
1262.  Mr.  Shaic  Ze/erm]  Were  any  of  the
crew  domestic  slaves  ?—Yes,  every  dhow  carries
domestic  slaves  as  part  of  the  crew.
1263.  Chairman.']  Did  you  take  any  of  the
crew  to  the  place  where  the  dhow  was  condemned ­
  ?  —  N  one.
1264.  Mr.  Kinnaird.]  What  became  of  the
Crew  when  you  destroyed  the  dhow  ?—VYe  gave
them  their  choice  whether  they  would  be  landed,
or  whether  they  should  be  transferred  to  some
other  vessel,  and  they  generally  chose  to  take  a
passage  in  some  vessel  going  to  their  own  place.
1265.  Mr.  Shaw  Lefevre.]  Did  the  domestic
slaves  in  such  cases  leave  their  masters?—No.
1266.  Mr.  Kinnaird.]  What  class  of  people
are  these  captains  of  dhows  ;  are  they  superior
men  ?  No,  quite  the  reverse  ;  in  the  small  dhows
they  are  the  ordinary  low  class  Arab.
1267.  Have  they  any  knowledge  of  navigation  ?
--None  ;  they  follow  the  land  the  whole  way  up
from  Zanzibar.
1268.  You  state  that  on  arriving  at  the  station
you  had  no  Blue  Books  placed  in  your  hand,  was
that  the  case  with  the  squadron  generally  ?—
Yes.
1269.  Mr.  Shaw  Lefevre.]  Looking  to  the  inefficiency ­
  of  the  interpreters,  do  not  you  think
there  is  considerable  danger  in  condemning  a
Vessel  for  having  one  slave  on  board?—No,  I  do
riot  think  there  is  if  it  is  carefully  done.
1270.  Looking  to  the  little  reliance  which  can
he  placed  on  the  interpreters,  do  not  you  think
that  injustice  maybe  done  in  many  cases?—I
think  it  is  very  probable  in  a  small  minority  of
^^ses.
1271.  Particularly  looking  at  the  fact  that  all
the  crew  are  domestic  slaves  as  a  rule?—Yes;
hut  a  violent  disease  requires  a  violent  remedy.
1272.  Mr.  Kinnaird.]  Was  any  request  made
0.116.

to  the  commandant  of  the  squadron  there  to  furnish  Captain
to  the  captains  of  the  vessels  information  as  to  P.  Colomb,
what  had  been  done  before  their  arrival  at  the  r.x.
station  ?—I  do  not  know  that  any  official  request
was  made  to  him  ^5  July
1273.  You  found  it  a  very  great  drawback  that  187^*
you  had  no  information,  and  that  you  had  to  buy
your  experience  from  day  to  day  ?—An  imm  nse
drawback.  Every  officer  011  the  East  Indian  station
was  ordered  to  make  a  report  every  six  months
on  the  slave  trade  as  to  what  he  had  been  doing,
and  those  reports  were  sent  home  ;  but  I  am  not
aware  of  their  having  been  communicated  to
succeeding  officers  of  the  squadron.
1274.  Was  there  any  commendation  for,  or
special  notice  taken  of,  aciiviiy  on  ihe  part  of
any  of  the  officers  coiumanding  ihe  cruisers?—
My  own  experience  is  that  it  was  a  little  die
other  way.
1275.  You  thought  that  no  encouragement
was  given  you?—I  speak,  of  course,  of  what
happened  to  myself  ;  I  had  one  or  two  letters
from  the  Foreign  Office  which  were  not  commendatory, ­
  but  the  reverse.
1276.  So  that  there  was  rather  discouragement
than  encouragement,  in  putting  down  the  slave
trade  ?—So  far  as  my  own  experience  goes.
1277.  Practically  you  believe  that  our  officers,
generally  speaking,  do  exercise  a  very  wise  discretion, ­
  and  it  is  your  impression  that  there  has
been  no  unnecessary  act  of  cruelty  on  their  part,
or  any  unnecessary  destruction  of  dhows?—None
whatever,  so  far  as  I  could  judge,  while  I  was  on
the  station.  I  thought  there  was  quite  as  much
discretion  used  as  could  be  ;  that  when  mistakes
were  made  they  were  mistakes  of  ignorance,  and
nothing  else,  and  that  there  was  no  want  of  zeal
or  want  of  proper  care.
1278.  Did  you  ever  trace  the  fate  of  those
slaves  which  you  landed  at  Aden?—I  never
traced  the  fate  of  individuals,  but  hearsay  evidence ­
  goes  to  show  that  slaves  landed  at  Aden
really  find  their  way  into  Arabia  as  slaves  :  at
Aden  there  is  no  means  of  disposing  of  them.
They  are  sent  from  time  to  time  to  Bombay,  but
the  feeling  in  India  was  very  strong  against  that
step  being  taken.
1279.  Do  I  rightly  gather  that  your  impression ­
  is,  that  there  is  an  utter  want  of  system  in
the  whole  arrangements  for  putting  down  the
slave  trade,  owing  to  our  not  giving  pro¡ier  instructions ­
  to  the  squadron  ?—I  will  not  go  so  far
as  to  say  that  there  is  an  utter  want  of  system  ;
but  I  think  the  system  might  be  improved.
1280.  Have  you  any  suggestions  to  make  to
the  Committee  with  respect  to  those  slaves  that
are  landed  at  Aden,  and  which  find  their  way
back  and  are  recaptured  ?—I  have  always  thought
that  the  worst  thing  that  could  happen  to  a  slave
was  to  be  captured  by  one  of  Her  Majesty’s  ships;
because  there  is  no  opening  for  him  after  that.
He  spends  a  happy  time  on  board  the  ship  ;  but
his  after  career  is  quite  a  doubtful  one.
1281.  Mr.  Shaw  Lefevre.]  That  would  be  an
argument  in  favour  of  stopping  the  trade  at  the
ports  of  embarkation,  rather  than  at  the  ports  of
debarkation?—Yes,  possibly.
1282.  Having  undergone  the  hardships  of  the
40  days’  voyage,  you  think  they  are  better  off  by
remaining  uncaptured  ?—Yes,
1283.  You  think  that  their  lot  as  liberated
slaves  is  rather  worse  than  their  lot  as  slaves  in
Arabia?—I  think  so.
1284.  Mr.  Kinnaird.]  Suppose  by  treaty  you
L  2  ■  secured