ON  SLAVE  TRADE  (EAST  COAST  OF  AFRICA).

11

Thursday,  ISM  July  1871.

MEMBERS  PRESENT:

Sir  Robert  Anstruther.
Lord  Frederick  Cavendish.
Mr.  Crum-Ewing.
Viscount  Enfield.
Mr.  Gilpin.
Sir  Jolin  Hay.

Mr.  Kennavay.
Mr.  Kinnaird.
Mr.  O’Conor.
Mr.  John  Talbot,
Sir  Frederick  Williams.

CHARLES  GILPIN,  Esq.,  in  the  Chair.

The  Hon.  Crespigny  Vivian,  called  in;  and  further  Examined.

173.  Chairman.^  You  wish  to  make  some  additions ­
  to  your  former  evidence  ?—In  describing ­
  the  slave  trade  that  is  carried  on  on  the
African  coast,  I  said  nothing  about  the  slave
trade  with  Madagascar.  There  is  a  constant
slave  trade  with  that  island  from  the  southern
ports  of  Zanzibar,  and  though  it  goes  on  in  driblets ­
  it  is  still  permanent.  That  slave  trade  is
nlso  forbidden  by  our  treaty  with  Madagascar  of
^  27th  of  June  1865,  which  is  to  the  following
.  ect  :  ««  Her  Britannic  Majesty  and  her  Majesty ­
  the  Queen  of  Madagascar,  being  greatly
desirous  of  effecting  the  total  abolition  of  the
trade  in  slaves,  her  Majesty  the  Queen  of  Madagascar ­
  engages  to  do  all  in  her  power  to  prevent
^11  such  traffic  on  the  part  of  her  subjects,  and  to
prohibit  all  persons  residing  -within  her  dominions
<^r  subject  to  her  from  countenancing  or  taking
share  in  such  trade.  No  persons  from  beyond ­
  sea  shall  be  landed,  purchased  or  sold  as
?  ^’res,  in  any  part  of  Madagascar  ;  and  her  Majesty
  the  Queen  of  Madagascar  consents  that
ritish  cruisers  shall  have  the  right  of  searching
^^y  Malagash  or  Arab  vessels  suspected  of  being
engaged  in  the  slave  trade,  whether  under  sail
^  anchor  in  the  waters  of  Madagascar.  Her
"I^jesty  the  Queen  of  Madagascar  further  consents
  that  if  any  such  vessels  shall  prove  to  be
engaged  in  the  slave  trade,  such  vessels  and  their
erews  shall  be  dealt  with  by  the  cruisers  of  Her
Lritannic  Majesty  as  if  such  persons  and  their
vessels  had  been  engaged  in  a  piratical  undertaking.” ­
  that  there  is  a  complete  paper
blockade  of  the  whole  of  the  slave  trade  on  the
east  coast  of  Africa,  and  if  the  treaties  were  properly ­
  observed,  the  seas  of  Africa  would  be
just  as  free  from  the  foreign  slave  trade  as  the
seas  of  England.
174.  Mr.  Kinnairdr\  What  do  you  consider  to
be  the  waters  of  Madagascar  ;  how  far  do  they
extend  beyond  the  island  ?—To  a  limit  of  three
nailes,  I  should  suppose.
175.  Have  we  made  any  remonstrance  to  the
Madagascar  Government  ?—Constantly.
176.  V  hat  answer  have  you  received?—They
have  always  said  that  they  mean  to  act  up  to  their
t^aty,  and  lately  they  handed  over  to  a  naval
officer  a  large  cargo  of  slaves,  which  they  had
Seized  themselves.
177.  You  believe  that  there  is  every  wish,  on
their  part,  to  observe  the  treaty  ?—Yes;  on'the
0.116,

part  of  the  Hova  Government,  but  it  is  so  close
to  Kilwa  and  the  southern  ports,  that  the  trade
is  easily  carried  on.  I  think,  if  you  sealed  up
Kilwa  and  the  southern  ports  of  Zanzibar,  you
would  probably  at  once  put  a  stop  to  that  slave
trade.
178.  By  blocking  those  ¡Dorts  ?—Yes.
179.  C/iau-maa.]  What  does  Madagascar  want
with  slaves?—For  labour,  the  same  "as  at  Zanzibar. ­

180.  Mr.  Kinnaird^  Is  not  slavery  abolished
in  Madagascar  ?—No,  it  is  legal  there.
181.  The  imported  slaves  are  not  covered
by  the  treaty  ?  —  It  is  the  foreign  slave  trade
that  the  Queen  of  Madagascar  is  compelled  to
suppress.  With  respect  to  slavery  in  Madagascar, ­
  a  strong  memorial  was  drawn  up  by  the
Anti-Slavery  Society,  urging  its  abolition,  which
memorial  was  forwarded,  through  the  Foreign
Office,  to  the  Government  of  Madagascar,  and
the  Prime  Minister  wrote  to  the  society  to  say
he  was  sure  that  it  was  their  ignorance  made
them  propose  such  a  thing,  because  it  would  inevitably ­
  bring  about  a  revolution  in  the  country.
I  was  also  asked  on  Monday  whether  the  officers ­
  on  the  coast  acted  under  special  instructions. ­
  I  said  they  did,  and  I  now  put  in  the
instructions  under  which  they  are  acting.  Those
special  instructions  were  issued  in  November
1869,  in  consequence  of  the  serious  irregularities ­
  and  mistakes  committed  by  officers  commanding ­
  Her  Majesty’s  ships  employed  in  the
suppression  of  the  slave  trade  on  the  East  Coast
of  Africa.”  (Z7¿e  same  were  handed  in,  vide
A})pendix.)
182.  Is  there  any  other  addition  which  you
wish  to  make  to  your  former  evidence  ?—I  said
on  Monday,  that  chiefly  owing  to  the  circumstance ­
  of  the  duties  under  the  French  flag  being
lighter  than  those  levied  upon  British  vessels  a
great  many  dhows  had  adopted  the  French  flag.
I  think  this  fact  may  be  attributed  also,  in  a  great
measure,  to  the  immunity  from  seizure  which
the  French  flag  gave  them,  that  is  to  say,  that
dhows  carrying  on  an  honest  traffic,  would  adopt
the  French  flag,  in  order  not  to  run  the  chance
of  seizure  by  the  English  cruisers.  Then  I
wish  to  correct  my  evidence,  as  to  the  nonexistence ­
  of  an  American  Consulate  at  Zanzibar  ;
there  is  one,  but  I  have  never  heard  that  the
B  2  Americans

Hon.
C.  Vivian.
13  July
1871.