16 
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE 
Sir 
J. W. Kaye. 
13 July 
1871. 
ment if we paid the lesser part of the expense, 
and the Imperial Government the greater. 
212. There are some Indian subjects residing 
at Zanzibar?—Yes. 
213. Do you believe if the slave trade was 
suppressed, a very large legitimate trade would 
spring up ?—It has been shown that there is a 
great deal of trade now ; whether if slavery were 
suppressed in Zanzibar we could introduce free 
labour, is another question ; I should think we 
could in process of time, but my recommendation 
would be that we should attempt gradually to 
suppress the slave trade, because you cannot im 
port free labour immediately, and it might embar 
rass the industrial resources of the country very 
greatly if you suppressed the slave trade suddenly 
without jiroviding free labour. 
214. Has the Indian Government ever proposed 
or recommended the establishment of more rapid 
communication by steam, between India and Zan 
zibar, as a means of suppressing the slave trade ? 
—I do not know that they have, but I know that 
the Slave Trade Committee which sat at the 
Foreign Office recommended that the subject 
should be taken into consideration, as one of very 
considerable importance. 
215. You have stated that you were a member 
of that Committee ?—Yes. 
216. As representing the India Office, were 
you willing that the expenses of the Zanzibar 
establishment, on the scale recommended by that 
Committee, should be borne in equal parts by 
the Indian and the Imperial Exchequers ?—Yes, 
certainly, and the views I took were fully adopted 
by the Secretary of State for India in Council, 
and we wrote a letter to the Foreign Office, re 
presenting that those were our views, and hoping 
that that recommendation would be carried out. 
217. Has that scheme been adopted by the 
Government?—The scheme was concurred in by 
the Foreign Office ; both the Foreign Office and 
the India Office were of opinion that it would 
be a fair mode of settling the whole matter. 
218-19. Can you tell the Committee the reason 
why it has not been adopted?—The reason it has 
not been adopted, has been because the Lords of 
the Treasury refused to pay a farthing towards 
it ; I can produce the correspondence if neces 
sary. 
220. Chairman.^ Will you give the substance 
of the correspondence without putting the corre 
spondence itself in ?—The substance of the de 
partmental correspondence is, that the Foreign 
Office asked the Treasury to pay and the Trea 
sury refused. The result on the India Office is 
shown by this passage of a Despatch from the 
Duke of Argyll to Lord Mayo, dated 21st April 
1871. “ Your Excellency is aware the ‘anomalous 
state of things ’ here adverted to was brought by 
Her Majesty’s Government under the considera 
tion of a Special Committee on the African Slave 
Trade, in which the Foregn Office, the Colonial 
Office, the India Office, and the Admiralty were 
represented, and of which Mr. Churchill, your 
agent at Zanzibar (then on sick leave), was a 
member. The Committee were of opinion, that 
as the duties of the agency and consulate at 
Zanzibar were of a twofold character, one part 
concerning the Indian, and the other the Imperial 
Government, it was expedient that the con 
trolling authority should be divided between the 
Foreign Office and the India Office, and just 
that the cost of maintaining this twofold esta 
blishment should be equally divided between the 
Imperial and the Indian Governments. This 
recommendation was supported by the Foreign 
Office and the India Office, but it is with much 
regret that I have to inform you that the pro 
posal has been negatived by the Lords Commis 
sioners of the Treasury, who refuse to burden 
the Imperial Exchequer with any part of the 
expenditure necessary for the support of the 
Zanzibar establishment. Against this decision, I 
have protested. I concur in opinion with your 
Excellency’s Government, that the revenues of 
India should on no account be charged with any 
part of the expenditure entailed by the efforts 
made for the suppression of the East African 
slave trade ; but I do not agree wifh you in con 
sidering that the interests of India are in no 
wise promoted by the residence at Zanzibar ol 
an officer appointed and controlled by the Indian 
Government. There is a large and increasing 
trade between India and Zanzibar, and many sub 
jects of Her Majesty and of neighbouring Indian 
states are located in that territory; apart ifomall 
political considerations, it appears to me indeed 
to be open to serious question whether an entire 
severance of the existing connection between 
your Government and the state of Zanzibar 
would not be highly injurious to large numbers 
of the people under your rule. If, therefore, it 
should be finally determined by the Lords of the 
Treasury that no contribution shall be made by 
the Imperial Exchequer towards the maintenance 
of the British establishment at Zanzibar, I should 
consider it my duty, in communication with your 
Excellency, to place the agency on an entirely 
new footing, so that no payment should there 
after be made from the Indian revenues on 
account of any proceedings connected with the 
suppression of the slave trade, or any other mea 
sures not having for their object the benefit of 
the people of India; but it will be obvious to 
your Excellency that at a time when the Finan 
cial Department of Her Majesty’s Government 
refuse to entertain a proposal strongly recom 
mended by other departments for an equitable 
division of the expenses of the Zanzibar establish 
ment, I could not, if I thought it desirable, re 
commend that the Imperial Government should 
relieve India altogether of the charge of the 
Zanzibar agency and consulate ;” so that you see 
from this that the Secretary of State for India is 
very willing to share the expenses fairly and 
equitably with the Imperial Exchequer, but that 
the Imperial Exchequer declines to bear any 
part of the burden. 
221. Mr. Kinnaird.'] Has great inconvenience 
arisen from the refusal on the part of the Treasury 
to carry out that scheme so concurred in by the 
Foreign Office and the India Office?—Certainly, 
very great inconvenience must arise, because we 
have communicated to the Foreign Office that we 
consider that they will no longer be privileged to 
send any instructions to the Zanzibar agent ; so 
that it must bring the whole thing to°a dead 
lock. 
222. So that this fearful traffic has latterly 
been increasingly carried on, owing to the action 
of one department of Her Majesty’s Gover- 
ment?—Certainly ; this would be the tendency; 
but I am not informed as to the fact. 
223. You think that a matter deeply to be de 
plored ?—I think it a matter greatly to be de 
plored. 
224. The head of the department has autho 
rised you to state that that is the view which he 
entertains ?