36 
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE 
G.C.S.I, 
K.C.B. 
17 Juljr 
t-Byi. 
Sir B. Frere, might go to in dealing with those Governments, 
and prepared with some authority, and with the 
dignity of a special envoy to press these points 
on those governments. 
453. What is the nature and extent of the 
Indo-African trade, exclusive of slaves?—It is 
very considerable. Some of the reports before 
the Committee give the figures. But the point 
that should be noted especially is, that it is a 
very old and reviving trade. Before any au 
thentic Greek history, it is quite clear that there 
was a very considerable trade on this coast, and 
India had a very considerable share in it. It is 
more than probable that a good deal of the 
African trade, such as it was, which found its 
way to l yre and Syria, was carried on then, as 
now, by Indian merchants, who had their houses 
of agency at African ports. The earliest travellers, 
both those who came from the north and those 
who came with the Portuguese round the Cape, 
found Indian traders at every port along the 
coast, and a very considerable Indian trade car 
ried on between Africa and India. And that 
trade was only crushed for a time, or very much 
lessened, at all events, by the action of European 
and Arab piracy. All the novels of Defoe’s time 
speak of piracy in those seas very much as we refer 
to expeditions into the far west of America; and 
it is quite clear, if you read the memoirs of Captain 
Singleton, or any books of that kind, that active 
young men went into those seas and plundered 
everybody, but especially the Indian merchants, 
almost without any sense that they were doing 
wrong. It was only when the trade had got to be 
almost entirely confined to large ships that piracy 
came to be less profitable. Of late years this 
trade has revived, and judging from all analogy, 
there can be no doubt that if it were properly 
dealt with, and not impeded, as it is impeded, by 
the slave trade, it would increase very rapidly. 
I may mention that almost all of what we may 
call the banking business at those ports is done 
by natives of India, who have their homes in 
Scinde, Kurrachee, Kutch, Kattewar, and Bom 
bay, and some as far south as Cananore and 
Cochin. They never take their families to 
Africa ; the head of the house of business always 
remains in India, and their books are balanced 
periodically in India. The house in Africa is 
merely a branch house, though many of those 
people will assure you, and they give very good 
evidence of the fact, that they have had branches 
in Africa for 300 years, and possibly for much 
more. When you have that kind of network of in 
digenous activity existing as a mercantile agency, 
it "is impossible to believe but that the traders 
will be as ready to push legitimate trade as they 
have proved themselves to be in India. 
454. What is your view of the comparative 
importance of those African traders to England 
and India?—I should say the trade is equally 
important to both. 
455. But I mean with regard to the amount ? 
—With regard to the amount of it, the trade 
used to be almost all carried on through Bombay. 
The first change was that a portion of it was 
taken to the entrepôt at Aden ; but latterly a 
great deal of it has come direct from Europe 
to Africa. There is a considerable and increasing 
American trade, or rather there was before the 
American war, and the German and French trade 
is very rapidly increasing. The German trade 
has become a matter of very great interest to all 
German mercantile men and political economists. 
and German attention has been very much di 
rected to that coast. But notwithstanding the 
large direct trade that has grown up, the Indian 
trade continues to increase almost as much as the 
English trade, and there seems to be an almost 
inexhaustible field for trade on that coast. I 
had the advantage of having Dr. Livingstone 
living with me for some time, between two of his 
expeditions to Africa, and he is, as the Coin- 
inittee are aware, one of the most keen and care 
ful observers that one could possibly meet with, 
lie was extremely struck when he had travelled 
a little in Western India; he made two or 
three journies to a short distance from Bombay, 
and he was extremely struck with the immense 
apparent facility for a very large mutual trade 
being carried on between the two continents. 
Dr. Livingstone pointed out that there was an 
almost unlimited power of producing food in 
Africa. We had been in the habit of supposing 
that in India we should never have to im])ort food 
from anywhere else ; but it so happened, during 
the time he was with me, that in one province oí 
India famine was threatened, and the prices were 
at once lowered by importation from the Persian 
Gulf. He remarked the fact immediately, and 
pointed out that the grain that was imported, 
was grain that could be produced to any extent 
in some of the high lands at a little distance 
from the coast of Africa, and that grain of dif 
ferent kinds, suited to the Indian taste, could be 
laid down on the coast at a rate which would 
render its transit to India a matter of commercial 
certainty. 
456. Sir Jotm Huy.^ The grain being culti 
vated by free labour, I suppose ? — There was 
very little free labour known then, but he spoke 
rather of the capabilities of the coast ; he spoke 
particularly of the coast round Mombaza, where 
there are a few Englishmen settled, I think, who 
belong to the Church Missionary Society. 
457. Chairman.'] How are the liberated slave? 
disposed of at Bombay and Aden?—When there 
were very few of them, I think it must be about 
20 years ago, they were made over to the police 
in Bombay, and the chief magistrate of police 
was charged with the duty of finding employ 
ment for them. It was not difficult to do so a? 
long as they were very few, and as long as they 
were chiefly adults, but after a while a very 
large number of children were brought ; they 
quite exceeded the power of natural absorption 
by any means at the command of the police, and 
there were some very painful cases, some of the 
men being kidnapped, and others, women, being 
found in a state of prostitution in the bazaar?*. 
The Government of the time took the advice of 
some of the Missionary Societies, and the Mis 
sionaries, at the suggestion of the Government, 
took some of the children, who were made over’ 
to them, and gradually there grew up at Nassick, 
not far from Bombay, about 70 or 80 miles front 
Bombay, where there is a station of the Church 
Missionary Society, an African colony, and th6 
children were all taught industrial occupations oí 
different kinds. They trained the boys as brick 
layers, carpenters, and smiths, and so on, and a? 
servants fitted to earn their own livelihood in 
India. Dr. Livingstone took from that institu 
tion nine boys, I think, who went with him to 
Africa, and I believe they are the African boy? 
who are supposed to be with him still. In the 
last letter I got from Dr. Livingstone, about twu 
years ago, there was an allusion to those boys,