38
MINLTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE
K.C,B,
17 July
1871.
Sir B.Frere, ment Avho is cognizant of those facts ?—They arc
G.C.S.I., matters of historical certainty.
471. At Bombay you were not required to
give to the Foreign Office or the Post Office any
information, were you ?—The facts were no doubt
embodied in a report, but they are buried, like
many other things, in the official reports. The
case in which India received a very important
supply of food from Persia, was an instance in
point ; there was a sudden failure of the monsoon,
and of the periodical rains in Guzerat; and all
the local officers and the grain dealers were convinced
that famine was impending. This was
telegraphed in all directions, and, among other
places, it was telegraphed to Persia and Bassora :
and the result was that a steamer which was then
due from the Persian Gulf brought down a
large importation of wheat, which immediately reduced
the prices, the grain dealers saw that there
were means of supplying it; and in that particular
instance the grain was reduced in price
at once by the combined operation of the telegraphic
and steam communication in a way that
would have been quite impossible 10 years ago.
4/2. You think that, under those circumstances,
subsidies wisely given are of incalculable
benefit in developing the trade of a country ?—
Yes, givers with what I will call frugal liberality.
That would be quite ihe best way of developing
that commerce which would bring slavery to a
natural end. I might mention that when the ZaU'
zibar envoys were in Fngland two or three
years ago, one of them said in terms (I forget
the exact words), that they found, on the main
land now, it was more profitable to employ natives
in^ growing sesaniom seed for export to Marseilles,
than to hunt them down as slaves. That
is the kind of operation which, I think, would
piomote the due development of a legitimate
commerce.
473. It would materially help the American,
German, and French trades, if they had a regular
mail ; would they not, then, very much use
our telegraphic and postal communication ?—
Enormously, no doubt ; as much as we should.
474. So that there is almost a certainty of a
very great trade developing itself?—It seems so
to me.
475. And that would most effectually stop the
slave trade, would it not ?—It seems to me the
only thing. You can stop it «by force, but you
cannot keep it stojiped by anything but the
growth of such a commerce as would grow up
on the East, as it has done on the West Coast.
476. Did you say that Dr. Livingstone was
very strongly of that opinion? — Entirely so.
That was after seeing more than most casual
travellers have seen of Western India.
477. You spoke of the want of additional
consuls; would there be any difficulty in obtaining
the services of very efficient men there ?—
Isot the least; if you required commissioned
officers, such as our military and political officers
in India, and those of the regular civil service
of the Government there, they could be spared.
But you might have a great deal of agency which
has only grown up of late years, that is to say,
educated native agency. I have met young
Mahomedan and young Hindoo men of those
particular castes, who go out to that coast, and
wffio engage in trade there ; I have met them
able to speak and write as good English as we
do ourselves, and quite able to pick up any languages
of the people they are among.
478. M ould there not be an indirect advantao-e
in finding occupation for our own Indian subjects
in that way ? Of course there would be, thouo-h
that would be only in a few cases, but I woidd
leave the matter as much as possible in the hands
of our head consular authority : and if he said,
“ I have a place for which I can only ask you to
g^\ e pO /. 01 100 /., and that is not enough for an
Englishman, but I think it would be eimugh for
a Mahomedan or Hindoo, and there is siich a
person there ; ” I would leave it to him very
much to select his own agents and give every
weight to his recommendations with regard to
payment.
479. Had the consul applied to you when you
were Governor of Bombay you would have had
no difficulty, I suppose ?—I could have found the
agents but not the money.
480. I suppose the same remark applies with
regard to interpreters ; there is no difficulty in
finding competent interpreters, is there ? Ÿone
whatever, only they should be regularly paid, and
be, as far as possible, in regular service.
481. Do you know instances in which the
admiral had alleged, or had reason to believe,
that an efficient force was not sent in response to
his application ?—I think, whenever he applied
in India, we were able to give him some one who
was efficient. We did all that he required ; but
I have known that, from want of opportunity of
applying, the captains have been very badly
served in the matter of interpreters ; they have
been obliged to take up men with a mere smattering
of Ilindoostanee, and who were not fitted,
from their imperfect understanding of the language,
to interpret between the captain and the
chiefs.
482. It must be an immense detriment to the
service having no direct or constant mail communication
with Zanzibar, must it not ? It is a
most serious detriment.
483. Sir B.Anstruther.] With regard to the compensation
for the expenditure of 8,000/., which
you have recommended that the English Government,
conjointly with the Indian Government
should undertake: how would the Exchequer
be compensated for the outlay ?—In the first
place, I should rather demur to their requirino"
direct compensation. I should regard it rather
as a portion of the sum which England has
been paying ^ for the last two generations, to
carry out this great national object of suppressing
slave trade ; but I have not the
least doubt that, like a subsidy to the line of
steamers, ample compensation would be found in
the very large commerce, which must follow
anything like settled Government, and the suppression
of the slave trade. Such commerce, as
does exist at Zanzibar, has grown up, or has
revived rather, since it was conquered by the late
Imaum of Muscat. He was a man of very o-reat
ability; bereigned fora very long time, and in
his early days he had the conduct of negotiations
with Lord Wellesley, and had helped to
keep the r lench out of those seas in the revolutionary
war; and he ended by conductino- the
anti-slaveiy negotiations of the Governments in
our own time. Nobody can watch his career
without feeling certain that if his descendant
would go on in the same course, building up a
considerable marine, as he did, and givino- protection
to all the people that he obtained^nfiuence
over or conquered, we should be having our
work
