ON SLAVE TRADE (EAST COAST OF AFRICA). 
55 
. 719. Is your Rejiort published ?—My letter on 
is in the Blue Book for 1871, at page 64. The 
i^Gport, as laid before Parliament, is not the same 
■^Gport as was submitted to me. The 3rd, 4th, 
and 6th paragraphs have been altered in ac- 
^'^rdance with my suggestions. 
720. Taking it as it stands now, how far do 
you agree with the recommendations of the Re 
port ?—As it now stands I agree with the recom- 
^ondations of the Report in a general way. 
721. Do you think if those wei e carried out, a 
^ory material effect might be produced even 
^'ilhout the British Government becoming pos- 
^ossed of Zanzibar?—The proposals made by 
■L'Ord Clarendon for a new treaty, which I have 
deferred to before, practically embody the greater 
P^i't of the recommendations of the Committee, 
^Hcl I agree with them in a general way. 
722. And you think they might produce a 
^^aterial effect ?—I think so, provided also, that 
transport of domestic slaves by sea is for- 
^^dden. 
723. And the squadron increased?—And the 
®9Radron increased. 
724. I hardly know how to reconcile that with 
^ke statement you made before, that you thought 
hardly any guilty dhows escaped ?—I quite admit 
difficulty ; it is as much present to myself as 
you. I know that during the three months of 
of the slaving season we boarded 400 
dhows, and only captured 11 of them with 958 
slaves ; I cannot account for it. It is supposed, 
apparently with good reason, that 20,000 
^^Q-Ves are exported for sale, and I do not know 
dow they go. If any large number of guilty 
dhows passed my ships during that season, they 
d^^st have gone by an outside route, and with 
d^ore ships that route could be watched. 
725. Sir J. Æ/y.] Do you think that the slave 
^^aders ever send out vessels as decoys to mislead 
he squadron ?—No, I think not. 
726. Chairman.'] Were you succeeded by 
■Admiral Coburn ?—Yes. 
1 727. Have you seen the proposals which he 
made ? — No, I have seen none of his corres- 
hORclence. 
, ^28. Do you agree with General Rigby as to 
he Uselessness of treaties with Arab chiefs?—I 
hardly able to give an opinion upon that 
phich would be of any use to the Committee ; 
general Rigby has great local experience ; the 
.^Gaties must at any rate be of value as justify- 
jdg us in taking aggressive measures when the 
^eaty has been broken. 
729. Lord F. Cavendish.] You said you were for 
^^Uie time on the west coast of Africa?—I com- 
^^uded a ship for some time on the west coast of 
■d^lrica. 
Q 730. That fleet was very much larger than any 
®et which it has ever been proposed to establish 
d the east coast ?—Very much larger. 
'^1. Was not it the case that all the efforts of 
® fleet on the west coast of Africa were really 
g^^tess, and that the trade went on till we were 
to station our fleet off Cuba?—No, I think 
j ® Suppression of the trade was not due to that. 
diuk the eflbrts of the squadron by themselves 
çj^dld, perhaps, never have put down the west 
j,^^st slave trade, though they had a very strong 
tj^^*’®ssive influence, and considerably diminished 
ti-^^^Ports ; the ultimate putting down of that 
g^de was due, I think, partly to political pres- 
and partly to the growth of humane feelings 
_de Spaniards and Brazilians. Public opinion 
in those countries eventually stopped the demand 
for slaves, and then the supply ceased. 
732. Was not it the case that the stationing of 
her fleet off Cuba, after the agreement which we 
came to with the United States, had a very great 
effect?—I was not on that station ; I never knew 
that it had. 
733. At the same time we obtained possession 
of the port of Lagos, did we not?—Yes; I was 
there at that time. 
734. Had that a great effect?—I think that it 
has had a very great effect indeed ; it has been a 
great encouragement to legitimate trade, and I 
should anticipate the same sort of result from 
taking possession of the government of Zan 
zibar. 
735. You think no efforts of our cruisers are 
likely to be productive of great success till the 
transport of domestic slaves is prohibited ?—That 
is my opinion. 
736'. What probability is there of the Sultan 
agreeing to such a prohibition?—The Sultan has 
never, that I know of, objected to it ; but if he 
has, his objections have been overruled. It is 
the interpretation of the treaties by either our 
Foreign Office or our Admiralty, of which I 
speak. 
737. Do you think the Sultan would consent 
to the entire prohibition of all movement of 
slaves between the coast and the island of Zan 
zibar ?—He certainly would not do so willingly. 
738. You think pressure might be applied to 
him that might oblige him to consent?—I think 
you have only got to say what you want and you 
will have it done. I think it would be very hard 
upon him to make the trade cease immediately. 
I think the proposal to make it cease b) degrees 
a much wiser one. I think the annual importa 
tion should be limited, and that the number 
allowed to be imported should be decreased for 
a certain number of years till it was finally 
stopped. 
739. Sir J. Hay.] Do you contemplate the 
application of force to obtain that concession from 
the Sultan ?—Moral force, I think, would be quite 
enough. 
740. Lord F. Cavendish.] Would moral force 
also enable us to obtain possession of the Island 
of Zanzibar ?—With a certain amount of money ; 
I think that amount would probably be less than 
what you are now paying in abortive and inef 
fectual efforts. 
741. Mr. J. Talhot.] As to the number of 
slaves exported in the year, did you say that 
about 20,000 were exported annually ?—I know 
that the custom-house importation returns at 
Zanzibar show, generally speaking, an importa 
tion into Zanzibar of 20,000. I know that a 
large number are exported from the main land 
who do not pass through the custom-house, and 
since the wants of Zanzibar itself cannot exceed 
3,000 or 4,000 a year for making up the defi 
ciencies of its population, I assume that there 
must be an export of something like 20,000 a 
year. 
742. The number captured by your cruisers 
was about 1,000 a year ?—About 1,000 a year is 
the maximum number captured by the cruisers. 
743. Nineteen thousand, in round numbers, 
escape ?—Nineteen thousand are unaccounted for. 
744. You regard that as an unsatisfactory result 
of all our national efforts for the suppression of 
the slave trade ?—Very unsatisfactory. 
745. Passing from that to the question of the 
G 4 healthiness 
Sir 
L. G. Heath, 
20 July 
1871.