38 
MINLTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE 
K.C,B, 
17 July 
1871. 
Sir B.Frere, ment Avho is cognizant of those facts ?—They arc 
G.C.S.I., matters of historical certainty. 
471. At Bombay you were not required to 
give to the Foreign Office or the Post Office any 
information, were you ?—The facts were no doubt 
embodied in a report, but they are buried, like 
many other things, in the official reports. The 
case in which India received a very important 
supply of food from Persia, was an instance in 
point ; there was a sudden failure of the monsoon, 
and of the periodical rains in Guzerat; and all 
the local officers and the grain dealers were con 
vinced that famine was impending. This was 
telegraphed in all directions, and, among other 
places, it was telegraphed to Persia and Bassora : 
and the result was that a steamer which was then 
due from the Persian Gulf brought down a 
large importation of wheat, which immediately re 
duced the prices, the grain dealers saw that there 
were means of supplying it; and in that par 
ticular instance the grain was reduced in price 
at once by the combined operation of the tele 
graphic and steam communication in a way that 
would have been quite impossible 10 years ago. 
4/2. You think that, under those circum 
stances, subsidies wisely given are of incalculable 
benefit in developing the trade of a country ?— 
Yes, givers with what I will call frugal liberality. 
That would be quite ihe best way of developing 
that commerce which would bring slavery to a 
natural end. I might mention that when the ZaU' 
zibar envoys were in Fngland two or three 
years ago, one of them said in terms (I forget 
the exact words), that they found, on the main 
land now, it was more profitable to employ natives 
in^ growing sesaniom seed for export to Mar 
seilles, than to hunt them down as slaves. That 
is the kind of operation which, I think, would 
piomote the due development of a legitimate 
commerce. 
473. It would materially help the American, 
German, and French trades, if they had a regu 
lar mail ; would they not, then, very much use 
our telegraphic and postal communication ?— 
Enormously, no doubt ; as much as we should. 
474. So that there is almost a certainty of a 
very great trade developing itself?—It seems so 
to me. 
475. And that would most effectually stop the 
slave trade, would it not ?—It seems to me the 
only thing. You can stop it «by force, but you 
cannot keep it stojiped by anything but the 
growth of such a commerce as would grow up 
on the East, as it has done on the West Coast. 
476. Did you say that Dr. Livingstone was 
very strongly of that opinion? — Entirely so. 
That was after seeing more than most casual 
travellers have seen of Western India. 
477. You spoke of the want of additional 
consuls; would there be any difficulty in obtain 
ing the services of very efficient men there ?— 
Isot the least; if you required commissioned 
officers, such as our military and political officers 
in India, and those of the regular civil service 
of the Government there, they could be spared. 
But you might have a great deal of agency which 
has only grown up of late years, that is to say, 
educated native agency. I have met young 
Mahomedan and young Hindoo men of those 
particular castes, who go out to that coast, and 
wffio engage in trade there ; I have met them 
able to speak and write as good English as we 
do ourselves, and quite able to pick up any lan 
guages of the people they are among. 
478. M ould there not be an indirect advantao-e 
in finding occupation for our own Indian subjects 
in that way ? Of course there would be, thouo-h 
that would be only in a few cases, but I woidd 
leave the matter as much as possible in the hands 
of our head consular authority : and if he said, 
“ I have a place for which I can only ask you to 
g^\ e pO /. 01 100 /., and that is not enough for an 
Englishman, but I think it would be eimugh for 
a Mahomedan or Hindoo, and there is siich a 
person there ; ” I would leave it to him very 
much to select his own agents and give every 
weight to his recommendations with regard to 
payment. 
479. Had the consul applied to you when you 
were Governor of Bombay you would have had 
no difficulty, I suppose ?—I could have found the 
agents but not the money. 
480. I suppose the same remark applies with 
regard to interpreters ; there is no difficulty in 
finding competent interpreters, is there ? Ÿone 
whatever, only they should be regularly paid, and 
be, as far as possible, in regular service. 
481. Do you know instances in which the 
admiral had alleged, or had reason to believe, 
that an efficient force was not sent in response to 
his application ?—I think, whenever he applied 
in India, we were able to give him some one who 
was efficient. We did all that he required ; but 
I have known that, from want of opportunity of 
applying, the captains have been very badly 
served in the matter of interpreters ; they have 
been obliged to take up men with a mere smat 
tering of Ilindoostanee, and who were not fitted, 
from their imperfect understanding of the lan 
guage, to interpret between the captain and the 
chiefs. 
482. It must be an immense detriment to the 
service having no direct or constant mail com 
munication with Zanzibar, must it not ? It is a 
most serious detriment. 
483. Sir B.Anstruther.] With regard to the com 
pensation for the expenditure of 8,000/., which 
you have recommended that the English Govern 
ment, conjointly with the Indian Government 
should undertake: how would the Exchequer 
be compensated for the outlay ?—In the first 
place, I should rather demur to their requirino" 
direct compensation. I should regard it rather 
as a portion of the sum which England has 
been paying ^ for the last two generations, to 
carry out this great national object of sup 
pressing slave trade ; but I have not the 
least doubt that, like a subsidy to the line of 
steamers, ample compensation would be found in 
the very large commerce, which must follow 
anything like settled Government, and the sup 
pression of the slave trade. Such commerce, as 
does exist at Zanzibar, has grown up, or has 
revived rather, since it was conquered by the late 
Imaum of Muscat. He was a man of very o-reat 
ability; bereigned fora very long time, and in 
his early days he had the conduct of negotia 
tions with Lord Wellesley, and had helped to 
keep the r lench out of those seas in the revolu 
tionary war; and he ended by conductino- the 
anti-slaveiy negotiations of the Governments in 
our own time. Nobody can watch his career 
without feeling certain that if his descendant 
would go on in the same course, building up a 
considerable marine, as he did, and givino- pro 
tection to all the people that he obtained^nfiu- 
ence over or conquered, we should be having our 
work