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MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE
Maj. Gon. 605. Can yon tell us for wliat amount of sub-C.
P. Rigby, sidy such a line could be established ?—I think,
■ most likely, since the opening of the Suez Canal,
20 July • the trade is taking a different course, and I
’871* think that so much trade would be attracted that
a very small subsidy would suffice. My idea
formerly was, that a steamer should go across to
Seychelles, and there should meet the French,
giving thereby direct monthly communication.
606. What do you propose now?—There is a
Mr. Wiseman, who has entered into the Zanzibar
trade very largely, which he carries on by
steamers through the canal ; he is anxious to
tender for the establishment of a regular line to
Zanzibar ; he sends his steamers now to Zanzibar,
but not with any regularity, as he would if there
was a subsidy. In the note which I received
from the customs master at Zanzibar on Monday,
he says, I only hope your endeavours will
j)rove successful in regard to the postal communication
with Zanzibar ; if you do succeed you
will have the hearty thanks of the Zanzibar community,
native and European. At the time of
writing, our mails for March, April, and May
are lying at Seychelles ; nothing to bring them
over. Admiral Cockburn in flagship Forte,”
left yesterday for Seychelles, he has promised to
send these with the June mail from Mahi next
month ; yet a month to wait.”
607. The French steamers touch at Seychelles?
—Yes, on their way to Mauritius and Reunion.
He complains that the Post Office will persist in
sending his letters to Seychelles. Seeing that
there are only chance opportunities of forwarding
letters from Seychelles to Zanzibar, it amounts
to denying British subjects at Zanzibar all
postal communication.
608. Lord F. Cavendish^] You have read the
Report of the Slave Trade Committee of 1869,
which sat at the Foreign Office ?—Yes.
609. What do you think of the terms of the
treaty which it recommends should be negotiated
with the Sultan of Zanzibar ?—I do not think any
treaty would have the slightest effect ; treaties
with Arabs are mere waste paper.
610. You think we should get rid of our present
treaty ?—We can easily do it, by saying, “ This
treaty has never been observed by the subjects of
the Sultan of Zanzibar or of the Imaum of Muscat,
and it is no use having a treaty in force that is
never observed.”
611. Would you at once forbid all export of
slaves to the island of Zanzibar ?—The worst part
of the slave trade is that from Lake Nyassa to
the south, Kihva being the port of shipment. The
whole of that vast and rich country is becoming
depopulated. Banyans who have been for years
at Zanzibar have told me that they remember,
when they first came to the coast, the whole
country was densely populated down to the sea
coast, and now you have to go 18 days’ journey
inland before you come upon a village almost.
That is fully confirmed by Baron Van der Decken
and Dr. Rosher, who travelled that route. Baron
Van der Decken talks of miles and miles of ruined
towns and villages the whole way up towards Lake
Nyassa, where there is now no population at all.
Every year this slave trade is extending further
and further inland. A great number of the slaves
are now brought from the western side of Lake
Nyassa ; the Arabs have got dhows in the lake
on purpose to convey their slaves across. I had
a proof at Zanzibar of how the slave trade extends
from nation to nation in Africa. I found, in
registering all the slaves I emancipated, that
amongst the recent arrivals most of them gave the
names of their tribe as Manganga. I could not
at that time exactly fix the position of their
country ; however, shortly afterwards I saw a
letter of Dr. Livingstone in the paper, saying
that he had recently travelled through the Manganga
country, where the whole population was
engaged in the cultivation and working up of
cotton, and he said that he had never seen such
a wonderful cotton country in his life, or such a
fertile country. I think, a year or two afterwards,
he went througli the same country, and found it
entirely depopulated, all the huts being full of
dead bodies. The children had been carried away,
and most of the adults slain. That is one of the
worst features of the slave trade in that country .
When the slave traders go into a district, they
kill all the men and women, and burn the villages,
and carry off the children. The reason they give
for taking the children only is, that the children
are driven more easily, like flocks of sheep, or
they are tied with ropes and chains ; the men
they lose more by desertion on the way.
612. My question was whether you would
prohibit the present trade which we allow between
the main land and Zanzibar for the purposes
of Zanzibar itself ?—Unless the Government
choose to do what I think is the proper course,
viz., to stop it with a high hand at once, and say
we will not have this trade go on, it might for
the sake of the Arabs in Zanzibar be permitted
for a short time between Miram a and the Island,
or coast opposite Zanzibar ; there is not the same
atrocity in that traffic, because it is not carried
on on the organised system that the other trade
is ; probably from what is called Mirama, 4,000
slaves are annually brought to the Island of Zanzibar
; that would be sufficient to keep up the
supply in Zanzibar and Pemba; they are meu
and children who have been kidnapped. The
slavers do not burn towns and villages, and murder
the grown-up people to get those slaves.
613. Sir J. Hay.'] Are they exported from
Dar Seelam ?—Mirama is the coast district opposite
the Island of Zanzibar ; Dar Seelam is quite
a recent creation of the late Sultan of Zanzibar,
and it is now going to ruin again.
614. Lord F. Cavendish.] When you speak of
stopping the slave trade with a high hand, do
you mean by a squadron, or by any interference
on land ?—By a squadron ; I do not think the
squadron need be very strong ; but it would be ineffective
without an experienced naval officer, an
officer whose heart would be in the work.
615. If the trade were allowed from one port
only to the Island of Zanzibar, would not there
be a danger of slaves being taken overland, even
from Lake Nyassa to that port?—That could be
checked, because there is such a marked difference
in the tribes ; I would severely punish any
man who should export natives of those southern
tribes ; you could easily stop that.
616. What do you think of the recommendation
of the Slave Trade Committee, that freed
slaves should be landed by our cruisers on the
Island of Zanzibar, and left there ?—I think it
the very best destination for them ; I have thought
a good deal about it, and I do not think any other
plan would be satisfactory. The climate of the
Mauritius does not suit them at all ; they die
there like rotten sheep in the cold weather.
Seychelles suits them exactly ; they get there
the food they are used to, cassava and fish,
bnt
