34 
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE 
Sir B Freie, interfere with our national rights, though we 
G.C.S.I., may not think it very wise, viewed by our lights 
K.c.B. of political economy. Some of the Sultan’s most 
17 July industrious subjects, some of those who are the 
main stay of commercial affairs in his dominions, 
are men of Indian extraction, who come there 
and are subject to poll taxes. 1 have no doubt 
it would be a wise measure, if he could afford it, 
to remit the whole of a poll tax of that kind ; 
but, I think, it should be left to his own sense of 
his interest, and unless there is some national 
question which enables us to say, “ You shall 
not tax our subjects,” we should abstain from 
interfering with him. 
451. Mr. Churchill said, I think, that inas 
much as a treaty had been made by which certain 
duties ought not to be levied, but had since been 
levied sub silentio, there would be in our power 
the offering of a quid pro quo for his giving up 
the traffic ; was not that his evidence ?—Pos 
sibly that is the explanation. There are some 
six or seven preventive measures which, if the 
Committee will permit me, I will refer to. 
I he first seems to me to be to limit the 
transport from the main land to Zanzibar. As 
I understand the question, it is reasonable that 
we should for a time, at all events, offer no 
effectual objection to the Sultan of Zanzibar 
having such a number of slaves belonging to 
himself or his subjects, as he requires to trans 
port from the main land to Zanzibar, but that 
we should not allow that transit to be made a 
cover for slaves who are not really intended for 
domestic or agricultural purposes in the island of 
Zanzibar, but who pass to the sea, and so away 
to the northward ; and it is proposed to limit the 
transit to the export from one particular port. I 
should think from what I heard from the agents 
of the Sultan at different times in Bombay, and 
even in this country, that they would be very 
willing, if they saw their way clear to what we 
were about, to make that transit much more re 
stricted, and subject to much more stringent 
rules than appeared to be contemplated by the 
report of the Foreign Office Commission. For 
instance, I should think, if it were properly put 
before the Sultan, he w ould be very willing to have 
the whole legalised transit of slaves between the 
mainland and Zanzibar managed by steam-boats, 
with regard to the departure of which from the 
mainland and their arrival at the island, there 
would be much less doubt and discretion than 
there would be with regard to sailing vessels, 
and that every slave who was so passed should 
pass only under a permit which would come under 
the view of some authorised functionary of the 
English Government. 
452. Sir iZ. Anstruther.'] That would diminish 
the export of slaves from the main land by about 
three-fourths, would it not ?—It would diminish 
the export of slaves to a very considerable extent. 
There is some difference with regard to the 
number required ; some authorities say between 
1,700 and 1,800; others, and I think Mr. 
Churcliill, who has probably the soundest 
opinion, says nearly 3,000 or 4,000 ; but what 
ever it may be, I would give an outside limit; I 
would not attempt to draw the thing too tight at 
once ; if you limit the route by which they 
should go, you are pretty certain when you once 
get them to Zanzibar that you will have them 
more under your own view and your own con 
trol. Then I think you must be prepared when 
you are requiring the Sultan to cancel what he 
thinks a very valuable right to give him some 
thing in return. I think the means of doing so 
are afforded by the very peculiar position into 
which he has returned with regard to his relative, 
who is reigning at Muscat. The whole of the 
arrangements between the two kingdoms have 
been fully explained in the evidence which has 
been given in the last two days, and it amounts 
to this ; that the cost of carrying out in perfect 
good faith, as far as we are concerned, an 
arrangement which was very solemnly entered 
into a very short time ago under the authority, 
not only of Her Majesty’s Government in Eng 
land, but of the Government in India; I say, that 
the cost of carrying that arrangement out is in 
round numbers 8,0001. This arrangement affords 
the means, first of all, of keeping peace between 
Zanzibar and Muscat, and keeping both the 
branches of a very important family, a family to 
which civilisation and the English Government 
in India are under considerable obligations, in a 
position of honour, and in a position in which we 
should wish to see them placed, and where, if 
they understand us and act on their family tradi 
tions, they are quite certain to do very much 
what we ask them to do. It does not seem to 
me a large sum to pay, if it were divided between 
the Exchequers of England and India, for 
such very great objects. It is very much less 
than we have been in the habit of spending 
year by year for the purpose of putting an end 
to slavery ; and it would help to put an end to it 
in a natural and, it seems to me, a legal, as well 
as a very politic mode. It would give us a very 
great hold both on Muscat and Zanzibar. But 
our agents on the spot must know what the 
Government really intends to do, and must act 
vigorously as their predecessors have acted- 
The English Government has been extremely 
well represented hitherto, both at Muscat and 
Zanzibar ; and whenever our consuls have 
known what we wanted, they have given great 
effect, both by argument and influence, to • 
what the English Government required. That 
is the second point which I would urge, namely, 
that, between England and India, we should 
arrange for the payment for which Zanzibar is 
at the present moment bound to Muscat, and 
that we should take that as a stand point ; and, 
referring to the benefits which we have conferred : 
on both, say, “ Now in return for this you should 
do something that we consider desirable, and 
also for your benefit.” The third point is, that* 
I would place our consuls and the consulat 
service there, generally, on a better footing- 
Both Muscat and Zanzibar are extremely trying 
climates. The position is one Avhich wears out 
men very fast ; they are very ill paid, and they 
are almost without subordinate assistance ; they 
are especially deficient in the means of employ 
ing vice-consuls, and persons in that position at 
the outports. I have no doubt that if you wei’ß 
to deal Avith those gentlemen as the IndiaU 
Government has ahvays been in the habit of 
dealing Avith great political officers, and giving 
due weight to their representations, as to tb^ 
Avant of an additional outlay of 150 Z. or 200 Z. » 
year at particular places, for particular object?, 
I say I have no doubt that a little more liberality 
in that respect, enabling them to employ, nof 
necessarily English agents, but consular agent?, 
whether they might be natives of India, or Arab?, 
or Egyptians, you Avould find that they Avould 
ahvays have the means of knoAving what Ava? 
going