21 
ON SLAVE TRADE (EAST COAST OF AFRICA). 
to say that the payment of 1,500 relates solely 
o the agency. I do not see that we could put 
^ stop to the slave trade there, without relieving 
Sultan of Zanzibar from the payment of the 
subsidy, or giving him some equivalent. 
278. ^ Would the recommendations which your 
ouimitteg made with respect to the squadron, 
^utail increased cost upon this country ?—That 
^ui not in a position to state. 
279. Have you seen some observations made 
y Sir Leopold Heath on the Report of the East 
'^oast African Slave Trade Committee ?—Yes. 
^80. Perhaps, you recollect these extracts, “ I 
Very much regret that the evidence upon which 
Heport is based, has not been published, be- 
^ause any opinion I may give, will be merely 
bat of an individual, and would, perhaps, have 
materially modified had I seen the recorded 
^Videuce of others. With this reservation I 
ave to state, that I can in no way agree with 
Opinion expressed in paragraph 36, that with 
bree cruisers and one steam-launch, the slave 
lade will be effectually checked during the 
§i'eater part of the year ! I have frequently 
Recorded my opinion, that all that England has 
uoiie for the last 25 years, on the east coast, has 
been of no practical use in the suppression of the 
slave trade ; and now that there is an apparent 
intention on the part of Government to inaugu 
rate a more vigorous policy, I must earnestly 
ope that the squadron will be largely increased, 
^o long as the existing domestic habits in slave re- 
oeiymg countries remaining unchanged, so long 
. there be more or less of slave trade. Those 
.its can only be changed by completely stop- 
P(ii» the supply of slaves for a very long period, 
piobably for a whole generation, and any system 
'vhich stops short of that Avill fail of complete 
rVccess. The trade will be scotched, but not 
bled, and will revive whenever the pressure is 
aken off. I recommend, therefore, that at least 
Vessels, besides the flagship, should be appro- 
pi'iated to this source.” Do you concur in that 
opinion?—Rot being a naval officer, I am not 
^^petent to give an opinion upon that. 
He further says: ‘‘I wish to add, that 
etwithstanding my general agreement with 
lany of the proposals of the Committee, and my 
. ^l^^Gf, that if carried out, they will make slave 
lading more hazardous, and tend to reduce its 
^niount. I am yet more and more convinced, 
. lat the only certain way of stopping the traffic 
by purchasing the sovereignty of Zanzibar, 
^bd thus obtaining a central position from which 
b Work upon the neighbouring coast, and ulti- 
Upon the interior of the country.” From 
bee passages, it appears that, at any rate. Sir 
Gopold Heath is not of opinion that the mere 
payment of 1,500 Z. a year would stop the slave 
rade ? I do not think anybody would say that 
e mere payment of 1,500 Z. a year would put a 
13 July 
1871. 
stop to the trade, but we must have a beginning. Sir 
and this is the agency by which it is to be IFi Kaye. 
stopped. The expenses of the agency mi^ht 
have to be siqiplemented afterwards by other 
payments, but this is a beginning, and this is all 
which the Treasury hitherto has been called 
upon to pay. There may subsequently arise a 
question, because it is still an open question, 
about relieving the Sultan of Zanzibar from the 
payment of the subsidy, as a matter of breach of 
good faith, and if we cannot relieve him from the 
payment of the subsidy, it would have to be con 
sidered whether we can in any way produce a 
sum of money sufficient to compensate him in 
another way for the surrender of the revenue 
which he derives from his slave trade. The 
1,500 Z. is a beginning ; of course there would 
be subsequent expenses, but as to what Sir 
Leopold Heath says as to purchasing Zanzibar, 
you might as well talk of purchasing Germany. 
282. He speaks of the Island of Zanzibar ?— 
That is the head-quarters of Zanzibar ; how could 
we doit? In the first place, the Sultan would 
not sell it. There has been subsequently another 
recommendation, that we should annex it, as the 
term goes. I believe the Rombay Government 
supported that view of the matter, but imme 
diately it was known here the India Office 
telegraphed to India that it would not be enter 
tained for a moment. 
283. Possibly, even with a sincere desire on 
the part of the Treasury to put down the slave 
trade, the view might be held that it is not 
worth while to incur the expense of 1,500 Z. un 
less the country is further prepared to go to the 
expense of maintaining 10 ships on the coast, 
besides other expenses ?—What I say is, that 
it might be economical in tlie end, even if that 
increase of the squadron were required (to which 
I cannot speak), because to maintain 10 ships for 
three years is better than to maintain three ships 
for 20 years ; it is only a matter of calculation ; 
the probability is that it would be cheaper in the 
end. The Committee assumed that there might 
be a temporary increase of expenditure to be set 
off against permanent diminution. 
284. Chairman?^ Evidence was given the 
other day, and you have confirmed it so far as 
your knowledge goes, that a certain limited 
number of slaves is sufficient for the labour re 
quired i n Zanzibar proper ; it is only with reference 
to that limited number of slaves that the treaty 
with the Sultan of Zanzibar permits any slave 
traffic ; that number being given us as 1,700 only 
per year, there must be a large illegal traffic in 
slaves?—1 do not know how the 1,700 is calcu 
lated; whether that is the absolute number of 
able-bodied labourers, or whether allowance is 
made for those too old to work, or for children. 
I am not responsible for these figures. 
Mr. Henry Adrian Churchill, c.b., called in; and Examined. 
j,-Cliairman.'\ You have resided some con- 
orable time at Zanzibar ?—Two years and nine 
Months altogether. 
286. In what capacity ?—As political agent 
consul. 
all the particulars 
« ^h have been stated already, as to the amount 
wh +L trade and so forth, I will ask you 
ether you are acquainted with the statements 
of Dr. Livingstone with regard to the slave 
trade ?—Yes ; I have read his book, and I do not 
think them exaggerated at all from what I have 
heard from Dr. Kirk, who accompanied Dr. 
Livingstone. In conversations with the former, 
I have gleaned that the road between Nyassa 
and the coast is strewn with the bones of slaves 
that have been killed or abandoned on the road, 
and the villages which, on their first visit were 
C 3 flourishing 
Mr. 
Churchill,