40 
MINUTES or EVIDENCE TAKEN BEEOlîE SELECT COMMITTEE 
Sir B. T'rei 
O.C.S.J., 
K.r E. 
1S71. 
’e, on tlie sjiot, no doubt he would have made very 
short work oí his faithless correspondent ; that 
kind of information accurately giveiu and given 
with rajiidity to the head quarters of a squad- 
ron, would, I should think, enable the naval 
officers to diminish the number of ships em- 
jdoyed. 
492. Do you think that the Persian Govern 
ment would accede to a seizure by our ships on 
our own investigation, by their authority, of a 
laden slaver in their own ports ?—They arc just 
now rather sore on such subjects, but I have no 
doubt they would do, in the long run, what is 
reasonable. 
493. At present I think the Indian subsidy to 
the Royal ísavy is 70,000/. in addition to the 
transport service ?—Yes. 
494. Do you think that they woidd be inclined 
to increase that amount very considerably for the 
purpose of suppressing the slave trade, supposing 
the diplomatic arrangements could be made ?—I 
think they Avould do whatever was reasonable, 
and whatever Her Majesty’s Government said, 
might fairly be expected of India, though, no 
doubt, they would be unwilling to take any 
additional expense upon themselves, unless 
they saw it was part of a general imperial 
policy. 
495. Is it your opinion that the Royal Navy 
could best perform the service, or a local force, 
such as the Indian Navy formerly was?—That 
is a large question, but I have no doubt that the 
Royal Navy could perform the service very 
efficiently if the Admiralty v ere a little less 
strict in the enforcement of some of the rules 
which they have laid down for themselves. I 
think, if they allowed us to deal with their officers, 
and ships, more in the way in which the Horse 
Guards allow us to deal with their battalions and 
brigades, the Royal Navy could perform the 
duty just as efficiently as any other. 
496. You would place them under the direc 
tion of the Governor of Bombay, rather than that 
of the Admiral on the station?—They should be 
always under the direction of the Admiral on the 
station. So far as my experience goes, the 
Governor of Bombay will never have any diffi 
culty in getting done whatever is necessary. 
But I allude rather to that special devotion to 
that particular service. It is a peculiar service 
in which the men get more efficient after having 
been four or five years on the coast ; and under 
the present system they arc removed just as they 
are getting to know their business thoroughly. 
497. You do contemplate, then, that even with 
the ships of the Royal Navy, the officers of that 
particular service should be continued there for 
a much longer period than the period for which 
the officers of the Royal Navy continue, for any 
given service ?—Yes. 
498. And that they should become locally 
qualified for the service ?—Yes, and that ymuld 
obviate most of the arguments for a local naval 
force. 
499. Ml. J\.enna7vct2i.~^ One of your sugges 
tions ivas that we should have the rio-ht to'seize 
slavers within the three-mile limit,ivas it not? 
Yes. 
500. Is it the fact that wo have not the right 
to seize slavers in Zanzibar and Muscat by the 
declaration of the Imaum of Muscat, dated 6th 
May 1850 ?—I do not recollect that ; I was think 
ing more particularly of the African coast. 
501. But in the year 1850 would not Zanzibar 
have been under the Imaum of Muscat ?—Yes ; 
I may state that I know, as a matter of practice, 
that unless a vessel has been without the three 
mile limit she is rarely captured ; if she is chased 
on shore then they follow her ; but otherwise 
they leave alone vessels hugging the land. 
502. Then, what further' stTpulations would 
you suggest should bo added to the treaty with 
Persia, we having the power to search vessels if 
we have a Persian officer on board, and having 
prohibited also the import of slaies?—That is 
rather an inconvenient restriction, but I would 
get, if I could, the same facilities from them that 
we have from any other power; the greatest 
facilities. 
503. T ou would propose additions to that 
treaty; an amended treaty, in fact? —Cer 
tainly. I would keep the subject always before 
the Persian Government, and press it on their 
attention, until I obtained the utmost facilities I 
thought possible. 
504. Dr. Kirk writes, on the 14th of April : 
'' I had no reason whatever to think that, on the 
subject of the sla’vc trade, he had in any wav 
changed, or was ¡nepared to grant what was 
asked through Mr. Churchill ;” you think that 
if w e were willing to relieve him of this subsidy, 
Ills objections to curtailing the slave trade would 
be done away with ?—Yes. 
505. Would you propose that w e should pav a 
subsidy to Muscat?—Yes; that we should re 
lieve Zanzibar from all concern in the pay 
ment. 
506. I hen we should be at the mercy of the 
Sultan of Zanzibar if he did not carry out the 
treaty, should we not ?—Hardly. A man in his 
position, who is really at our mercy the wdiole of 
the time, is not in a position to say that he had 
forgotten a treaty in which that was a stipula 
tion binding on him. 
507. But his successors might not consider 
themselves bound by that treaty ?—I think thev 
would be as careful to observe any arrano-ement 
that they had entered into, as we should%c. I 
do not agree with the view that is taken by manv 
people, that there is always a disjiosition on their 
parts to recede from their engagements. 
508. In addition to the cx]mnse of the liberated 
slaves at Aden, is there not a sum paid in boun 
ties to cruisers ?—Yes. 
509. 1\ e pay a considerable sum in bounties, 
do we not ?—Yes. 
510. If the slave trade was diminished, of 
course wc should save considerably in that 
respect, should we not ?—Yes. 
511. Have you calculated at all w hat would 
be the whole expense of carrying out your plan ? 
—No. It w ordd be a matter of very easy calcu 
lation ; but it would be increasing in one wav 
and decreasing in another. If your vessels were 
as effective as they ought to be, I think you 
would then very speedly reduce the amount 
expended on your squadron, reduce the amount 
of the bounty, and the head money, and so on. 
But on the other hand, I think you ought to be 
prepared for some increase in the consular 
services. 
512. laking it on the Persian Gulf, would 
you propose that this should be shared between 
the Indian and Imperial Governments ?—Yes. 
513. In the Persian Gulf, are not the interests 
rather more Indian than Imperial ?—I think 
not; and I think that the interests are almost 
equally shared. It may be a doubt as to which 
division